hinge du jour

[biggun]

Daniel, the last couple are just hinges, not the best examples I have seen, but if the tree went down then all is good.

What I don't get, is why you always try to imply that it is above everyone else's knowledge? In reality they look like rushed hinges when double cutting with a saw too short for the trunk. That is all, nothing less.

Some would say sloppy, some wouldn't care... BUT most I know wouldn't post pictures of a sloppy hinge and then try and imply that it is something special. It isn't, it is usually just a sloppy, careless hinge.

 

[murphy4trees]

The title of this thread is hinge du jour...

which translates to hinge of the day... similar to fish of the day that a restaurant may serve, being whatever the fisherman found in his nets that morning... I AM not implying that they are special.. they are just a record of day by day what my stumps look like, the good the bad and the ugly...

HOWEVER
The real message I was hoping to imply trough this thread is how effective a high pull line and skid loader are in creating hinges with lots of tall fiber pull, therefore showing more control with more pull which allows fatter hinges than could ever be achieved with MA hand pull or wedges.... If people using those methods would also post pics of their hinges, that point would become clear..

Another point that this thread is apparently going to be used to demonstrate is that not all hinges need to be by the book.... Cut it as needed for the circumstances... As long as you know what is needed and how to achieve that safely, there are lots of options, some of which may "look" sloppy, or over-cut to the orthodox faller... I AM happy with my hinges and would be willing to discuss every one of them.... even when I make a mistake I use it as a learning opportunity...

Like the spruce log with the foot on it.... I left it thick because I had a skid steer waiting to pull it over, but instead I gave the new guy a chance to pull it by hand alone.. He was originally pulling just by hand in the parking lot, and didn't stand a chance, then I brought over the skid steer so he could push back on it, using it as a foot hold, and he muscled it over.. Making two points.. He showed me how strong he is and the skid steer showed him how much more pull can be generated with a foot hold...

 

[Tree09]

You should have shown him how to actually use rope by finding something to take a turn on and sweating the line, or even rigging up a quick z rig. And yes equipment is handy for pulling on stuff

 

[murphy4trees]

You should have shown him how to actually use rope by finding something to take a turn on and sweating the line, or even rigging up a quick z rig. And yes equipment is handy for pulling on stuff

Its so funny how guys tell I "should" do something that's been passe in my playbook for 10 years....

And yes, every tree man could benefit from learning how to sweat in a line and understanding the principles of MA

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Brocky]

Thanks for the explanation, and it made sense until I looked closer at the picture. I see that the cut on the left is a bar width lower than the first cut and I can't figure out how that was the result of a back chain cut. When I first saw the picture, I thought there might be a more exotic reason for the two cuts.

 

[murphy4trees]

I promise you Butch... If I EVER asked my guys to set up a 3:1 z rig and start pulling by hand they'd look at me like I was crazy.... Then they'd light up a cigarette and walk away like they had something better to do

Might have used one once last year, or maybe the year before that....

On the other hand the radios came in handy today to teach the new guy how to sweat in a line... Needed it at least a dozen times just this afternoon... Very valuable and necessary skill depending on you level of rigging xpurteez... I was balance and tip tying today and swinging limbs over the bucket and upper boom....

 

[murphy4trees]

Thanks for the explanation, and it made sense until I looked closer at the picture. I see that the cut on the left is a bar width lower than the first cut and I can't figure out how that was the result of a back chain cut. When I first saw the picture, I thought there might be a more exotic reason for the two cuts.

It's not lower than the right side... what you are seeing is a layer of sawdust that was built up in the kerf from the push chain cutting...

 

[murphy4trees]

Question- if the desired result is achieved, what does it matter the method or how it was achieved?

It matters a lot, FOR NEXT TIME!

Learn what you can and can't get away with... Learn cutting techniques that are faster, easier and more reliable than the ones you have been using... Learn what can go wrong and how to avoid it from happening again... JUST LEARN, everything there is to know about falling trees... I particularly like to study falling technique on the ground so I can trust it when I AM in the bucket and my life depends on it working as planned...

 

[biggun]

Daniel or anyone else...

What is sweating a line? Probably a terminology thing but I have never heard of it.

 

[Mick!]

I wondered that.

 

[murphy4trees]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6peFy_08Wso" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


To manually sweat a halyard, the sweater grasps the line and, in a fluid motion, hauls it laterally towards himself, then down toward the deck, letting the tailer take up the new slack.

 

[SeanKroll]

Basically, for pretensioning the line, push/ pull perpendicular to the rope to magnify your force, then as you come back in line, you pull toward the POW or whatever, getting the slack out.

 

[Tree09]

Yup. It's a quick and dirty way to pull dramatically more than you can in a straight line pull. By tensioning a line and then pulling sideways on it, you use the angle factor leveraging your force on the line. Example: little bitty spar to pull over, not big enough pull to take the time to get out the come along, but more than you can just pull. So you throw the tail end around a tree and tie a bowline. Then you use that to pull your rope through, and you sweat the line, pulling slack out with each lunge, and you just greatly increased the amount you can pull. Another use is if you have a chain come along, you leave it in the pull position, but you can sweat the chain and pull slack with the tail. Dramatically faster than using the handle if the load is light enough (dragging something on the ground, not lifting obviously).

 

[Raj]

Sweating the line brought back some old memories. Maasdam for life here!

 

[Burnham]

Question- if the desired result is achieved, what does it matter the method or how it was achieved?

I don't understand all of the fuss in general about hyping or over analyzing hyped hinges and felling methods. It's really all pretty simple stuff, in my view. But people can talk for ages about how to cut trees down. Humans have been cutting trees down in many ways with mixed results since the dawn of time. Sometimes I get confused and think the discussion is about astrophysics or something of the like. I must be missing something here. Or is it a classic example of "mountain from a mole hole"?

My favorite felling method is the "one cut", especially for leaning trees. One cut from the back, easy peasy. Beautiful hinge, every time.

Yessir, Levi. You are missing far more than "something"...maybe even more like "everything".

Felling is a very complicated subject, and it would appear you have not yet been exposed to those nuances.

That doesn't make you a bad fellow, or someone not blessed with intelligence...it just means you need more exposure to the subject. You'll learn and begin to appreciate the complexities, if you want to.

And here's a warning you better take to heart...that "one cut" on leaning trees has crippled or killed more than a few sawyers over time. Think barberchair.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Humans have been cutting trees down in many ways with mixed results since the dawn of time.

Precisely, the main point of your sentence is the "mixed results".
The results can go from best to worse, eventually at the cost of some life. That's why it's important to reduce the hazard and the unreliability by studying closely both conditions and techniques to do things properly.
Beside that there's a pride to master your work, in any trade, if you like it.

 

[rico11764]

Maybe Rico would know [/QUOTE

As you well know, I made the mistake of critiqueing another man's cutting, so never again will I criticize another man's hinge. The cut in question is what Doug Dent referred to as a Pie Cost Ya! Hope all is well with you Stephen.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Maybe Rico would know [/QUOTE

As you well know, I made the mistake of critiqueing another man's cutting, so never again will I criticize another man's hinge. The cut in question is what Doug Dent referred to as a Pie Cost Ya! Hope all is well with you Stephen.

Never a bad foot with me friend. I admitted my lazy ways on those tosses with lean to my favour. Burnam has called on my practice more than once early on. I learned a lot from those critiques and from others. Mind you, others have deaf ears outside boxes......

 

[Mick!]

Re sweating the line, I did/do it, was shown it by my old boss years ago, just never had a name for it.

Do now though!

 

[Bermy]

Hubby was sweating a line yesterday...helps to have those sailing skills when it comes to tree rigging time

 

[murphy4trees]

Norway spruce hinge from yesterday.... She went 45 º and stalled.... didn;t actually mean to cut it like that, interesting effect though, so it made for a free lesson

 

[SeriousTreesAZ]

Well this thread got intense quick... as long as we are on the subject of hinges... this technique seems as though it would take quite a while to set up but the accuracy of the fall looks quite precise.

https://youtu.be/mqSny3GF-x8

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mqSny3GF-x8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MasterBlaster]

That's cool, Dalton - but why? Just to see how it works?

 

[SeriousTreesAZ]

The video says it's an old loggers trick to keep the tree on the stump while you pull, keeps it from lunging off in any direction... like I said it could be pointless labor but it was interesting to watch nonetheless lol.