Climber/ Treeworker Injuries and Treatments

[cory]

I have the thera hook too, a good device for sure. Haven't broken it yet getting pressure on those knots.

 

[theTreeSpyder]

Wife is trained in massage.
Biggest thing in this chase was persistence of the type you can't realistically pay for
>>EVERY nite face down in front of tv she watched as dug into back of leg/hip; just not giving up for calendar months>>just to get it to budge
>>very painful yet gratifying release, undoing of that day, then just a little more.
This is hard on hands, massager placing wight and strength all thru thumbs, a nice egg shaped rock etc. can fit hand/palm nicely and provide hard dig of soft point with less effort, no finger/thumb strain to strain/drain massager.
>>you are asking massager to do 20-40minutes of 'thumb stands'(instead of handstands) a night >> very fatiguing
.
The Homedics massager type is : Percussion , Homedics fair brand
the 2 pistons don't hit at same time like Harley's,but alternate like karate chop massage on cartoon
>>adjustable range, i don't use heat function
.
Theracane very helpful, best if know the trigger points and actually gotten a variety of good massage techs working on you b4>> need to know trigger points
i'll advise if working on back of neck or back on LEFT side;
>>try lay LEFT hand in cradle(or relaxed hang) of theracane, so LEFT side is TOTALLY relaxed, only use right arm to dig with cane
>>don't exert force with LEFT then try to pierce thru those tightened muscles to then get to trigger point on LEFT
.
As like putting a tennis ball in long sock and then with right hand flip over left shoulder and get it on a trigger point to then lay bodyweight back against!
In Butch's case sitting or laying (hard surface)on ball pressing into bony side of rim of butt cheek of afflicted side, will be rich with trigger points.
.
Triggger points sometimes can be worked out to release stress, contaminates(drinking water as flush afterwards is suggested) etc. same one might not need attention every day.
>>so what is max pain one day can be subsided the next and the trigger point isn't as inflamed and doesn't then need/get relief etc. the same as previous day
>>find more trigger points
.
My back pain is from tension stretch, spasms etc. related to workload
>>Sciatic is nerve reeving thru skeleton passes and getting squashed so turns on pain light and tensions muscle.>> then also daily workload applied
>>root cause is squashed nerve is like a light switch/sensor errantly left on, but none the less painful; in fact supremely painful
>>especially if traces full length of leg; like builds to 'no way out' as pain worx down leg; and can be real trouble;nerve and muscle constant on switch usually hammered by now.
.
Work time but have some severe yoga stretches to throw out next.

 

[cory]

thx

 

[pantheraba]

10-4 on the smooth rock to focus pressure where needed. Almost sounds like Rolfing/cross friction massage to break down scar tissue. Massage can be tough on the giver.

I found the same with the theracane, For shoulders use opposite hand to provided guidance and pressure of the cane knob. I also attach a rope with two eye splices in it to the cane...loop under cane and over the highest, long stud near hook. Put a foot in the resulting bight of rope and use the foot to provide more pressure that just one hand can give...this method really allows deep pressure on the traps. I also lay on the floor and put the cane on upper back muscles (or anywhere really). Let the floor be the fulcrum while I use the end of the cane for leverage to give higher pressure to the tip. Make sense?

 

[dstimber]

Y?all are really making me think about looking into a Thera Cane.

 

[cory]

Like a lot of tools, when you need it, you need it.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Wife is trained in massage.
Biggest thing in this chase was persistence of the type you can't realistically pay for
>>EVERY nite face down in front of tv she watched as dug into back of leg/hip; just not giving up for calendar months>>just to get it to budge
>>very painful yet gratifying release, undoing of that day, then just a little more.
This is hard on hands, massager placing wight and strength all thru thumbs, a nice egg shaped rock etc. can fit hand/palm nicely and provide hard dig of soft point with less effort, no finger/thumb strain to strain/drain massager.
>>you are asking massager to do 20-40minutes of 'thumb stands'(instead of handstands) a night >> very fatiguing
.
The Homedics massager type is : Percussion , Homedics fair brand
the 2 pistons don't hit at same time like Harley's,but alternate like karate chop massage on cartoon
>>adjustable range, i don't use heat function
.
Theracane very helpful, best if know the trigger points and actually gotten a variety of good massage techs working on you b4>> need to know trigger points
i'll advise if working on back of neck or back on LEFT side;
>>try lay LEFT hand in cradle(or relaxed hang) of theracane, so LEFT side is TOTALLY relaxed, only use right arm to dig with cane
>>don't exert force with LEFT then try to pierce thru those tightened muscles to then get to trigger point on LEFT
.
As like putting a tennis ball in long sock and then with right hand flip over left shoulder and get it on a trigger point to then lay bodyweight back against!
In Butch's case sitting or laying (hard surface)on ball pressing into bony side of rim of butt cheek of afflicted side, will be rich with trigger points.
.
Triggger points sometimes can be worked out to release stress, contaminates(drinking water as flush afterwards is suggested) etc. same one might not need attention every day.
>>so what is max pain one day can be subsided the next and the trigger point isn't as inflamed and doesn't then need/get relief etc. the same as previous day
>>find more trigger points
.
My back pain is from tension stretch, spasms etc. related to workload
>>Sciatic is nerve reeving thru skeleton passes and getting squashed so turns on pain light and tensions muscle.>> then also daily workload applied
>>root cause is squashed nerve is like a light switch/sensor errantly left on, but none the less painful; in fact supremely painful
>>especially if traces full length of leg; like builds to 'no way out' as pain worx down leg; and can be real trouble;nerve and muscle constant on switch usually hammered by now.
.
Work time but have some severe yoga stretches to throw out next.

I have had a type of massage done before that sounds very similar to some of what you describe. I think it might have been termed trigger point therapy or something like that.

Two points on that stand out in my mind. One is that there are specific tools made for the giver to use that reduce their stress. One is a softly rounded disc that's easy to hold in the hand and it has a softly rounded protrusion out of the middle of one side about the size of a small thumb. A second point that was enjoyable in the type I had done was that the practitioner would locate a sore muscle, start at one end of it and just press with that devise till I felt as much pain as I could comfortably bear. At that point I say stop and he just holds it while I breath deep and as I breath out envision waves of water just washing over that area carrying the inflammation (and pain) away. In a few breaths and moments, no more pain there, and he would move a short space down the cord of muscle - rinse and repeat.

In an hour and half session I could walk out of there feeling great. (By the way pushing on any of those muscles or areas after that yielded no more pain.) (Well...not until my body started doing its thing again. What any practitioner can do in 60 or 90 minutes my body is willing to spend 24 hours a day undoing.)

 

[theTreeSpyder]

Like a lot of tools, when you need it, you need it.

But, also know how to use;
Have paid different chiros and therapists to know the good pain of YES trigger therapy, and where points are.
.
That, stretching, percussive massager, hot shower and:

.
.
Are pretty strong for backs, non drug attack, but not necessarily Sciatica.
Side note: Kidney Stone seems like most likely self misdiagnosis as a back problem.
.
Am so cheap would wear patch a few days sometimes, taking hot shower and revitalized it.
Capsicum heat distracts and confuses nerves, capsicum caused dilation pulls more nutritious oxygenated blood thru the area.
Capsicum can build up for positive extended, residual effects, even given orally for this effect
.
I think sciatic management begins with calming the tramau-ed muscle and stretching/ straightening the skelectical run for the sciatic nerve.
In computers on a wired bus run they put a resistor at end of the line so don't get an echo back up the line as signal hits end and nowhere to run. That is what bad sciatic nerve feels like, pain slowlly extends then reaches end of run folds back on self swamping back over already traumatized leg, really nasty stuff, tough competitor too!
.
Usually loosen neck, balance stretch/exercise arm shoulder carriage and fold into intense slow back stretch by interlocking fingers on back of head, feet almost shoulder width apart offset 30degrees each
Bend head over as far as comfy keeping knees straight
Use hands to then hold head in place as SLOWLY force butt down feeling each vertebrae arc and flex to full stretched back. Re-load, repeat. Careful, slow, purposeful, intense yoga movement.
.
On back now more for sciatic would bring head and knee together of affected side, slow trying to stretch anything can porting thru skeleton to include sciatic nerve , pulling straight and to side, all trying to straightening out nerve pass. Listen to bod as in previous exercise, kinda balance out exercise other side as well.
.
Purposefully done, both can be very gentle, intensity.
Both are also for forging against 'roids but possibly aggravating bad preexisting situations...
.
These Occidental students know and understand bod from different angle, and have millenniums of success!
Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon!
.
Martial Arts buddy preached on wiring of nervous system, one of big hardwired faults was the brain working different body halves freaked out by specifically breaking 2 bones one on each side of bod to freak nervous system. Had other moves and understanding exploiting this phenomenon, but that was most dramatic call-out example of how it worked, and kinds of understandings and even mechanical logistics they have!
.
edit: this shows how critical alignment can be, how many chances for nerve being pinched, to then fire muscle and keep firing it until all progressively locked up, then pain has nowhere to go,
.

.
High butterfly wings,cheek side, right along bone then to each side are very rich in trigger points for pain management. Grinding with thumb to find hard pea size point to give painful release, if in fact it is needed. If trigger point is not inflamed, no 'knot to crack'...

 

[theTreeSpyder]

For calf spasms/charley horses
tried several stretches
pounding with fist at night trying to get it to unlock
she could eventually massage out was usually easiest; but every second so painful..
.
In last 10 years if right calf spasms i stand on left leg
right leg totally loose/ but still in spasm
i lower my right leg toes first slowly to floor,
ball of foot hits,
ball is pivot, lower leg more so length of foot leverages calf from contracted to extended by allowing more of leg weight to power the lever.
boom, done, alone in seconds!
Soft, easy motion, allowing foot as lever used correctly>> MUST lengthen calf.
>>just as pointing toes contracts calf.
.
Just like said about Thera Canes ( i prefer the S style); try to keep affected side loose while 'treating' it.
Mental/Muscle control to work towards not making it tougher to penetrate affected side, by opposite working side.

 

[pantheraba]

Good input..thanks. Using the "inner sight" to monitor what our muscles are "doing/need to do" is valuable. A bit of self-directed healing/treatment.

 

[dstimber]

Not really an injury. But has anyone ever had anxiety issues or just really overthought a sketchy job to the point that you wanted to walk away, kept you up at night. Etc etc.

I?ve caught myself overthinking things. With work and just general everyday stuff. Talked myself out of doing what I want because of the ? what if?s?.

What do you do to push through what the back of your mind is doing and just get it done.

I don?t do drugs, smoke , or drink so that knocks out some of the more common solutions 😂😜. I?ve thought many times damn I need a beer tho.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I never have any anxiety, but then I smoke weed.

 

[Mick!]

Yeah I get a bit fraught about stuff, had a job last Monday, middle of the town in the main square, huge cedar, high limb to take off that had been damaged by winds, awkward job anyway but there was a Post Office Depot underneath that had to stay open, pedestrians to be shooed away (thankfully by council workers) plus hordes of people filming and gawping.

Worried about it all weekend, went and looked at it a couple of times to work out the best way of doing it.

It was ok in the end went as sweet as a nut.

There’s nothing wrong with a degree of worry and anxiety about the important stuff in life, work, family etc. In fact not having any would be weird.

Obviously if it gets out of control then there’s problems.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

The "what if" is an essential part of the trade, vital should I say. Even on a not so complicated or sketchy job, I use to draw the different scenarios with the main possibilities and the issues which I can foresee. I make my own movies, on the field (that takes a little time) or at home, in the bed, everywhere, if I know beforehand what's going on. That helps to choose the best plan available, not saying that it couldn't change in front of the thing or during the work. It usually does actually.

But I agree, that could become very annoying if that applies to every subjects and the same thinkings coming back again and again. Staying awake, while being in an absolute need of sleeping is terrible for the mind and the body.

 

[Bermy]

I find anxiety or what iffing increases with fatigue, towards the end of my stay in Bermuda this summer I was putting off some bigger climbs, I got them done, but I was very aware I was close to my physical limit having been working six days for the last month or so.
I was aware of the potential to do something silly or lose concentration, so the 'git er done' go climb it attitude was quite subdued. Probably a good thing, I did those last few jobs more slowly and probably a bit more carefully, and made it out unscathed.

 

[theTreeSpyder]

i consider it different angles or focuses to view different aspects of a problem.
>>trust a lot of things hard to crack to hurried then relaxed reflection
>>especially if can find simpler comparative model to loosely play with
i guess as anything can be as much gift as curse / double edged sword !

 

[squisher]

Kenny you're input is highly valued. Thanks for continuing to stick around.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Merle Nelson]

Not really an injury. But has anyone ever had anxiety issues or just really overthought a sketchy job to the point that you wanted to walk away, kept you up at night. Etc etc.

I?ve caught myself overthinking things. With work and just general everyday stuff. Talked myself out of doing what I want because of the ? what if?s?.

What do you do to push through what the back of your mind is doing and just get it done.

I don?t do drugs, smoke , or drink so that knocks out some of the more common solutions ����. I?ve thought many times damn I need a beer tho.

Some good examples of normal anxiety were given. Seems like you are pointing to anxiety that is not just at the norm and that stops you when you don't really need to be stopped for safety sake.

Some huge percentage of the population here in the states is on mood altering drugs. Are you looking for alternative routes to that Denver?

 

[SeanKroll]

Denver, it can be easy to overthink a big or tricky job. The more experience you build, the more comfortable you will become, and the more self-confidence in your problem-solving will grow.

Keep it simple, as much as possible. Think about the least fatiguing way.

Take ample mental breaks while climbing. The more you climb/ cut/ rig, the longer you will be able to work between breaks.




Are you still basically working in isolation from experienced tree workers?




Its easy to get in over your head at the beginning. Don't be worried about bidding really high on jobs that you don't really want. If you need to do the job, you'll have money for equipment and staff.

Also, you've never done your first __________, until you've done it.

 

[dstimber]

I would prefer to never have to take any ?mood? medication.

Friends say there?s no way I have anxiety. But who know. My brain is constantly running faster than an idle pace I guess you could say. Can?t turn it off when it needs to or should be. If that?s anxiety then yea I probably have it.

I?m usually quick to learn something new and take off with it. Climbing/rigging has serious f up consequences so maybe I overthink a lot of aspects of it when I shouldn?t.

Yea Sean still self teaching. It?s a slow go. Would be great to here a ?your good keep going? every now and then.

I haven?t found anyone here close that climb or do much more than a bombs away type of operation. and a few of the crews are a little shady.

I go back to doc this week to see what my CTA and chest echo said. Hopefully all will be good and eventually I?ll be told it?s in my head and that I?m overworking or something to that extent. Haven?t been in a tree in 2 months do to the docs recommendations 😢. So I hope they come to some conclusion before to long.

 

[SeanKroll]

Hop on a plane for a few days and come out.
We've got some skill-building trees out here.

You mentioned the NW as a place to consider moving.
Come check it out.

 

[SeanKroll]

I used to be worried about failures during negative- rigging.
Just make sure your rope is the weakest link in the system, and well stronger than the tree.






Tie into a tall tree in the woods, and see how high you can climb into a strong species top.
I stood in small small wood at the top of a cedar recently, pretty much the very top.
Gives a lot of confidence in a 4" TIP, at about 4x's the cross sectional area.






Cutting and free-dropping smaller pieces instead of rigging can ease stress, even if more work.
Your the top of the team. Maybe two guys in the ground, and make it as easy on the climber.
There can be time to build skills, and rig to save labor, later.

 

[dstimber]

Would love to sometime Sean. I?m begging my wife to change vacation plans from Florida to heading out there.

My aunt and uncle ( they live in Dallas Texas)
Are in Washington state right now on vacation. They are keeping me updated with pics from all the parks they are visiting. They are at Olympic National Park for now and are wanting to go Rainier as well.

One of these days a good working/learning vacation would be nice.

 

[Merle Nelson]

I would prefer to never have to take any ?mood? medication.

Friends say there?s no way I have anxiety. But who know. My brain is constantly running faster than an idle pace I guess you could say. Can?t turn it off when it needs to or should be. If that?s anxiety then yea I probably have it.

I?m usually quick to learn something new and take off with it. Climbing/rigging has serious f up consequences so maybe I overthink a lot of aspects of it when I shouldn?t.

Yea Sean still self teaching. It?s a slow go. Would be great to here a ?your good keep going? every now and then.

I haven?t found anyone here close that climb or do much more than a bombs away type of operation. and a few of the crews are a little shady.

I go back to doc this week to see what my CTA and chest echo said. Hopefully all will be good and eventually I?ll be told it?s in my head and that I?m overworking or something to that extent. Haven?t been in a tree in 2 months do to the docs recommendations ��. So I hope they come to some conclusion before to long.

So now we know your benchmark, no mood altering drugs for you.

Normal....you will have to decide what that is. Thomas Edison was sent home at 8 years old. The teacher said he was addled in the brain. What was going on in the classroom wasn't enough for him he was continually looking out the window and imagining other things. It was the same for Einstein and all the greats.

Their minds were working, and maybe it worked against the teachers small little agenda that particular day. What I would say is not normal or healthy is when your mind works against you and your agenda.

The Doctor isn't going to tell you your lack of energy issues are all in your head and if he does you need to find another Doc for help and support. You are looking for the key that gets your body to working like you want it to and know has been in the rehlm of normal for you. Similarly you want your mind to work that way.

Do some personal research on what other people have accomplished in body and mind changes by changing their diet, even if doing it for a certain period as a test.

This research can be simple and easy going like watching some videos. One that comes to mind is Fat Sick and Nearly Dead. I can come up with some more soon.

Your answers are out there. They are simpler than you suspect I'll bet, and closer at hand. The one rub is they will probably take you and your effort rather than the effort of someone else. Oh, and not all your friends will agree and slap you on the back and say I'm going to do the same thing - there's that.