SkwerI
Treehouser
If you use an aluminum carabiner then it won't chew the knives up so badly. Lots of cheap aluminum carabiners out there.
Chipper carnage
- Thread starter frans
- Start date
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Nutball
TreeHouser
Yea, seriously, what ^he^ said. Go aluminum
Stumpshot
General Purpose
Seen anything in aluminum rated for 10,000 lbs pull? I tend to think aluminum would bend like silly putty on some of the stuff we pull with the winch (like the Osage we pulled over 2 days ago). Of course, our current winch line is a retired climbing line, so that's only rated for 7,000. I guess we could swap for steel or just tie off on really heavy pulls and skip the aluminum carabiner.
I'm really, really hoping that after 3x, we've learned our collective lessons as a crew.
I'm really, really hoping that after 3x, we've learned our collective lessons as a crew.
Nutball
TreeHouser
How strong is your winch? I think ours only pulls 1000lbs
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Always will be a guy tired or over heated or sick or...
Chook.
Chook.
treebogan
Treehouser
You could get a "C Hook" milled from a piece of Ally flat stock.Hole drilled in one end,it will hold under tension and if it goes into the chipper,it wont smash anything.
Like alot of us I have seen a fair share of Chipper carnage.The worst was a Vermeer 1800 that ate a Splitting maul.
Like alot of us I have seen a fair share of Chipper carnage.The worst was a Vermeer 1800 that ate a Splitting maul.
Jonny
Treehouser
There's 40kn aluminum carabiners out there. Or yea just tie it if your winch line is rope.
It's a hydraulic winch on the chipper?
It's a hydraulic winch on the chipper?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
How about making it outta wood?
I still have that large wooden nut and bolt someone made and sent me years ago. It's quite beefy!
I still have that large wooden nut and bolt someone made and sent me years ago. It's quite beefy!
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Yes Butch , Wood rules the day if it's going through the Chipper ... Everything else is just Metal.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
A local crew was working in the big city to the south and had blades come off and rip right through the chute. Never found the set/side that came off. Busy city street. Scary sh-t.
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
You could try a soft shackle. It's basically a biner in dyneema. No worry at all for the knifes and there are some very strong. They say up to 22000¤
https://www.elagage-hevea.com/fr/demonter/connecteurs-textile-liros.html
https://www.elagage-hevea.com/fr/demonter/connecteurs-textile-liros.html
Stumpshot
General Purpose
Yes, hydraulic 10,000 lb winch (Vermeer BC1800). Rope, not steel cable. Funny how me & the climber have never sent anything through the chipper... (I did toss a pair of ratty gloves through, they came out unscathed -- no more holes than they went in with!)
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I'd like to have heard it from about 100 feet away, under cover.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
A DOT BB anvil came loose. blew through the housing. Landed in the driving lane, I hear. Torque and retire bolts, I guess.
Stumpshot
General Purpose
Marc-Antoine, thanks for the idea of the soft shackles. I looked at them, but at $30-60 for some of the bigger/stronger varieties, I think we'll pass for now -- basically the same cost as a decent winch carabiner. Instead, we're going to reset our workflow and get back to a simple rhythm and stick with it -- and discipline ourselves to just tie knots on chipper loads. That way if someone makes a mistake, it will just be some lost tail of rope getting eaten, not a carabiner, hook, or shackle. We have brand new blades on the chipper now, and only those that know knots will use the winch line. It's been going well over the past few days with the grapple truck dropping logs on the table or on the ground nearby, tying them on with either a running bowline, timber hitch, or daisy chain hitch. No further carnage; we hope that chapter is done!
Soft shackles are about the easiest thing to splice up, the hardest part is the diamond knot. I would go with the 2 legs variety rather than the one inside the other one kind, they are quicker to loosen and stuff. You can also whip in a cord to act as a pull cord to loosen it even easier, there's a boating website that goes into depth on it and is awesome, I'll see if i can find it. Iirc he was using very small diameter amsteel, but it's the same for bigger stuff too.
Here it is
http://l-36.com/soft_shackle_howto.php
Here it is
http://l-36.com/soft_shackle_howto.php
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Get rid someone who can't tie a Running bowline or who wear velcro-closure boots.
My daughter is 6. I think by the time shes 7 or 8 she's going to be the paid trainer for knot-and-ropework-basics for new groundies. She can tie her shoes, and has a little song for how to make sure the girth hitch on the throw bag is secure. This weekend she will probably learn a figure-8 follow-though (re-trace) for rock climbing.
Stumpshot
General Purpose
I generally agree with that sentiment, but we can re-assign people to focus on brush hauling and raking duties. Better to have more specialized (and careful) operators who know the equipment and know how to use it without risking anything. When you get out of a groove and lose your method, that's when mistakes are more likely to happen.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Hire your daughter then.
Peeps have different strengths, running a small biz (as we both do) means accepting your employees’s shortcomings, and them accepting yours.
If a guy can drag all day or lift and shift without a grumble I won’t lecture him on knots.
Two questions gp....
1. Why would a professional crew of anything put up with repeated failures to work safe and protect equipment? I don't do trees full time, but if they can't feed a damn chipper safely they probably can't do anything else either.... I'm sorry and i may be spoiled, but if you repeatedly do actions that could easily result in someone being killed, while simultaneously friggin' up equipment that costs 10s of thousands of dollars, while also simultaneously friggin' up production for a couple days, where i work you get shitcanned. Immediately. I'm not knocking your guys, but if someone can't perform a task safely he is a liability to himself and the people around him, and it's not fair to everyone and their families to continue to put up with that shit. So why do you guys continue to allow it? Is stuff bid too low and production pushed to the point of risks being pushed on the crew? I'm not trying to be a dick, but i cannot understand this mindset at all.
2. You say you have a 10000 pound winch on your chipper, so what rope are you using for 5 tons wll on single line? And you know that knots in amsteel are terrible for their wll as well right (if that's what's on there)?
1. Why would a professional crew of anything put up with repeated failures to work safe and protect equipment? I don't do trees full time, but if they can't feed a damn chipper safely they probably can't do anything else either.... I'm sorry and i may be spoiled, but if you repeatedly do actions that could easily result in someone being killed, while simultaneously friggin' up equipment that costs 10s of thousands of dollars, while also simultaneously friggin' up production for a couple days, where i work you get shitcanned. Immediately. I'm not knocking your guys, but if someone can't perform a task safely he is a liability to himself and the people around him, and it's not fair to everyone and their families to continue to put up with that shit. So why do you guys continue to allow it? Is stuff bid too low and production pushed to the point of risks being pushed on the crew? I'm not trying to be a dick, but i cannot understand this mindset at all.
2. You say you have a 10000 pound winch on your chipper, so what rope are you using for 5 tons wll on single line? And you know that knots in amsteel are terrible for their wll as well right (if that's what's on there)?
SeanKroll
Treehouser
True enough, Mick, if they do everything else well.
It's so easy to learn to tie a knot that is the basic bread-and-butter knot of the industry, though, at least IME. I can get most people tying it in 5 minutes or less. It's more complicated than a clove hitch. That usually takes about 1 minute to teach. A lot of people over-complicate stuff, though. Your double-slipped square knot, aka, your shoe-string knot, as best I can tell, is harder than a bowline, IMO.
IME, learning means less doing-it-the-hard way. My employee says that he's definitely had to sharpen his critical thinking skills working for me. He's learned that it's mostly easier and safer to go get the make-it-easier tools, or think your way around a problem (like use a hand-truck, arbor trolley, trailer, lever (peavey, for example), wedge, the ground, gravity) than fight stuff. Less breakage, too, when you're organized. He applies similar tactics at home about good communication, planning the work-working the plan-assessing if the plan worked, etc.
GP, Rich/ Treebilly mentioned that two marls and a tail will pull almost anything with a chipper winch, IIRC.
Maybe several layers of plywood glue-laminated together, and cut into a wooden hook. haha.
Kyle, are you some sorta safety nazi, too, who wants to go home at the end of the day like the day was no big deal, biz as usual, no near-misses?
For real, you hit the nail on the head, for me.
What I like about working for myself is that I don't get put into bad situation by others. Time and again, people have proven to be the biggest threat to me...their judgments, actions and/ or inactions.
It's so easy to learn to tie a knot that is the basic bread-and-butter knot of the industry, though, at least IME. I can get most people tying it in 5 minutes or less. It's more complicated than a clove hitch. That usually takes about 1 minute to teach. A lot of people over-complicate stuff, though. Your double-slipped square knot, aka, your shoe-string knot, as best I can tell, is harder than a bowline, IMO.
IME, learning means less doing-it-the-hard way. My employee says that he's definitely had to sharpen his critical thinking skills working for me. He's learned that it's mostly easier and safer to go get the make-it-easier tools, or think your way around a problem (like use a hand-truck, arbor trolley, trailer, lever (peavey, for example), wedge, the ground, gravity) than fight stuff. Less breakage, too, when you're organized. He applies similar tactics at home about good communication, planning the work-working the plan-assessing if the plan worked, etc.
GP, Rich/ Treebilly mentioned that two marls and a tail will pull almost anything with a chipper winch, IIRC.
Maybe several layers of plywood glue-laminated together, and cut into a wooden hook. haha.
Kyle, are you some sorta safety nazi, too, who wants to go home at the end of the day like the day was no big deal, biz as usual, no near-misses?
For real, you hit the nail on the head, for me.
What I like about working for myself is that I don't get put into bad situation by others. Time and again, people have proven to be the biggest threat to me...their judgments, actions and/ or inactions.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Work. It's a simple three step program
1. Safety
2. No destroying shit
3. Produce
Anyone working with me needs to get with the program ......or get lost.
1. Safety
2. No destroying shit
3. Produce
Anyone working with me needs to get with the program ......or get lost.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
How funny, I say,
1. Don't get hurt.
2. Don't break/ lose stuff
3. Get some work done
That's the priority order.
1. Don't get hurt.
2. Don't break/ lose stuff
3. Get some work done
That's the priority order.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
The triangle. It’s amazing how often the top and bottom get reversed and the middle goes to shit
