California Fires

[MasterBlaster]

Wow, I can't believe how many homes have been destroyed. One would think those homeowners would have some sorta plan to survive the flames. Don't they make shingles outta fireproof materials nowadays? Why does that stuff seem to always happen in Cali?

 

[vharrison]

It is very sad. The folks in Cali live with the threat of fires, we live with the threat of hurricanes.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Parts of California are subject to hot dry winds during the late fall and into winter. They sweep up out of the Mojave and Great basin deserts, and head west. They can really fan the flames and push the inferno along. They can change direction suddenly, which is very dangerous for the people fighting the blaze. The brush and timber is very dry during the summer months, on into the fall if there has been little rain.

I believe that a lot of fires are caused by lightening strikes. It used to be that fires often got started by tossed cigarettes, but the penalty for starting a fire is so severe now, people have become wiser. Soft drink glass bottles reflecting sunlight, used to also be a big cause of fires getting started.

My father used to be on a medical assistance team up at the fires. When he came home after a number of days absence, it frightened me to go near him, he was so crazed, like he was on fire himself. I remember asking my mother, "What's wrong with daddy?" She said, "Oh it's just that your father has been up at another fire, he'll feel better in a few days". Those fires are very bad news.

Old Monkey knows them well, I believe.

 

[MasterBlaster]

So if they know they are living in a fire zone, why don't they do something about it - like advanced sprinkler/watering sysyems, more fireproof (NOT resistant) building materials, ect?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Good question...I haven't heard of anything special other than keeping the brush down around dwellings, which is only common sense, and a good hose at the ready.

Perhaps there is no reasonably affordable technology that can adequately hold off temperatures in the neighborhood of 1000 degrees.

 

[MasterBlaster]

1) Nothing flammable for 200 feet from the house. Rocks/gravel for grass.

2) Asbestos shingles and siding.

3) An external house sprinkling system with a generator for back-up, and maybe even a few thousand gallon water tank.

 

[thattreeguy]

lazy...a lot of people do not comply with the 100' clearance law for defensible space, people dont think especially in so cal,
its the annual burning of the homes to be followed by the annual slipping of the hills
down there i worked the laguna beach fire , and the arrowhead fire. a lot of property could have been saved by having adequate clearance and having a 1.5" water line on hand
and WWB is right about the building materials...unless your home is built with fire in mind, it may go up, this summer i spent time with a friend removing decks, plyboarding windows and vents, and doing a lot of raking. how many people prepare for a fire, not many it falls upon the firefighters cdf almost burnt us down with one of their lil fly overs dropping balls of fire from the sky, if you dont have clearance you should get the big red X on the door.

 

[Old Monkey]

Its difficult to make a structure that can survive a wind driven Santa Ana fire. The house and everything in it gets preheated by radiant heat and convection, then all it takes is one spark getting into your home and it all but explodes. There are things you can to make a house safer but it is near impossible to be 100% fire proof. These types of fire have always happened in SoCal and will always happen. I am certain that some of these houses have been burnt down before.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Then the main (or entire!) structure of my house would be underground. We have a house here that's built into a hill. It's pretty cool.

 

[sotc]

one of my customers here lives in the woods and has a pond and irragation system for his house in case of fire. only guy ive seen thats setup like that

 

[DMc]

This is another case of forgetting what was learned in the past and/or ignoring it. If you look at an old Spanish hacienda: stucco sides, 2-3 ft thick walls, tile roofs with the communal living, landscaped area in the middle of this building structure. These were common to the folks who could afford them and were supremely suited to survive in their environment.

Those who couldn't afford it built from the materials at hand with the understanding that it wasn't defensible, but the materials were at hand and readily available to be rebuilt. Similar to tropical island grass shacks.

We have a lot of folks up here who build in the forest interface with absolutely no conceivable way of defending, and sometimes even escaping, during a fire. People's lack of forethought can be amazing at times.

I think so many people's lives are so easy now, and the reliance on others for their safety and wellbeing has become so common, that survival preparation and thought are absent.

Dave

 

[wiley_p]

Wow, I can't believe how many homes have been destroyed. One would think those homeowners would have some sorta plan to survive the flames. Don't they make shingles outta fireproof materials nowadays? Why does that stuff seem to always happen in Cali?

An acre of heavily loaded Manzanita releases an amount of convective and radiant energy on par with that little bomb we dropped on Hiroshima. Very difficult to keep structures intaxct when dealing with that type of thermal front.
It gets damn hot Butch. Damn hot.

 

[stehansen]

As long as the insurance companies will insure them, they will still be built. I've thought like you MB that they should have a big water tank with a gas motor driven pump and some sprinklers or something that they could turn on as they are evacuating.

 

[Al Smith]

I've never been there so I don't know . However from what I gather from folks that live near those fire zones a lot must be factored in .

Because of the climate a lot of those structures are wooden,cedar shake roofs etc . .Actually ideal for a dry climate ,nothing would rot like in other areas . However ,due to factors such as immense underbrush ,those prevalent winds etc .it has and always has been a tinder box just looking for a spark to set it off .

Then too a wooden structure will withstand an earthquake a sight better than masonry .So what they have at the present they have to live with and hope it doesn't go up in smoke .

Geeze though if Cali doesn't slip into the ocean it's going to get burned up if this continues . Fires and quakes .All we have to worry about are ice storms, tornados and some SOB taxing us into the poorhouse .

 

[Stumper]

So if they know they are living in a fire zone, why don't they do something about it - like advanced sprinkler/watering sysyems, more fireproof (NOT resistant) building materials, ect?

Steople are Pupid.

 

[Underwor]

It is very sad. The folks in Cali live with the threat of fires, we live with the threat of hurricanes.

Guess you will all have to move to the Dakotas.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Steople are Pupid.

And Lazy.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

These fires were also in high density areas of homes. I can just picture it.. Nice neighbor hood with small lots, homes all close together. Then of course you have the wooden privacy fences on the parameter of the neighbor hood. Out side the fence you have high dry grass and low humidity content brush.. Add fire.. Now in a high density area you won't be able to get the minimum required 100' clearance and weed eat... Grass to brush to fences to trees to homes with high winds.. The Santa Ana's will create a fire storm throwing fire over 1/2 mile in front of the fire just in embers.. High density then takes over, one house to the next.. Decks, Shake roofs, wooden fences, Unprotected wooden eaves.
Insurance companies here in Calif. are now requiring more than CalFire is in clearance and taxes the homeowners with a cost per foot. Sometimes requiring at least, in some cases, 200 feet. We had a home owner/client that was going to have to pay 8000.00 for his cost per foot up from 3000.00 for the bed and breakfast. Pretty extreme. He was luckily able to negotiate with his neighbors to have us clear over the property lines, shop for some cheaper insurance and make out with it. High density areas are a nightmare. No room for removal and way too close together in housing placement... One house catches... it just keeps on moving..
Example.. Our fire here recent was 33,000 acres and we lost 30 or so homes. All the fires in So. Cal add up to 40,000 acres plus and they have lost hundreds if not a 1000 homes over all...

 

[arborworks1]

Seems like I saw a show where they were perfecting a fire curtain for a house. Not unlike an emergency fire shelter for firefighters. Just large scale, think of it as a convertible top for your home.

 

[jacob j.]

Most of the fires in SoCal are human caused, especially those near urban areas. People actually wait for the time when the Santa Anas are coming and go around starting fires, just for the potential of a catastrophic fire. When I was a hotshot, I was in Oakland hills in '91, Malibu in '93, Sherman Oaks and Thousand Oaks in '95, and San Bernardino hills in '96 & '97. Each time, there was at least 4-8 new starts per day in those local areas while we were trying to catch the large fires, all human caused.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Man, that kinda shit outta be a life prison term.

 

[thattreeguy]

agreed,
there should be serious penalties for unleashing a fire storm

 

[Stumper]

Man, that kinda shit outta be a life prison term.

Nah, just snuff 'em.

 

[Old Monkey]

Most of the fires in SoCal are human caused, especially those near urban areas. People actually wait for the time when the Santa Anas are coming and go around starting fires, just for the potential of a catastrophic fire. When I was a hotshot, I was in Oakland hills in '91, Malibu in '93, Sherman Oaks and Thousand Oaks in '95, and San Bernardino hills in '96 & '97. Each time, there was at least 4-8 new starts per day in those local areas while we were trying to catch the large fires, all human caused.

Hey Jacob, what crew were you on? I did one year on Prescott Hot Shots and three on Entiat Hot Shots.

 

[jacob j.]

Hey Jacob, what crew were you on? I did one year on Prescott Hot Shots and three on Entiat Hot Shots.

Monkey- I did six seasons with Wolf Creek and some odd fill-in assignments for Baker River and Union. Funny that you should mention Entiat, I've run into a bunch of old Entiat boys in the last couple of years. Mostly now they're doing single-resource and command staff assignments.