mastermind7864
Treehouser
One is new......but is a lefty.......just like the older one. 
Beginner Tree Climbing Tips
- Thread starter Merle Nelson
- Start date
- Replies 789
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SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
Proof is in the pudding on the offset pad, Randy. You might not mind too much right now, if you can't return them. Hopefully you can. Its definitely not ideal. I have pretty much those exact pad and spurs. Most people would hate them, I think they are sweet, and I got them for $41 shipped in 2006, and they are still going. Bigger guys are more likely going to need more padding. I'm typically about 180-185#.
Regarding being able to physically do it...FWIW, Double Line Rope Walker!!! Leg power...well, leg power and arm power. For an extra $150 or less, you can get the rope walker ascenders and fashion a teather A chest harness with a biner or micropulley, might help as well for the more top-heavy people.
Spur and flipline without a high TIP is LOTS more work. I've gotten to where I hang on my rope much more than I stand on my spurs during the course of a removal if there is cut and clean-up going on, in concert. I used to use a choked TIP below my flipline, and relied on strength and stamina to go,go,go. Then, as I got better at removals, and was more efficient, I'd climb back down a couple steps to hang on my climb line while waiting, then back up. As time progressed, and I got better at advancing my climbline overhead with accuracy (a steel biner and weight on the end can get your rope up a good ways), I would get TIPs somewhat overhead, and hang whenever I wasn't using my spurs for upward movement (really, sharing the weight a bit on the spurs, and using them for positioning). My spurs don't have to be super plush or light, and importantly, they work for me, and you have to find what works for you. Also, with an overhead TIP, its easier to rely on pole gaffs, which torque your knees less, and are more stable in small wood, IME.
Regarding being able to physically do it...FWIW, Double Line Rope Walker!!! Leg power...well, leg power and arm power. For an extra $150 or less, you can get the rope walker ascenders and fashion a teather A chest harness with a biner or micropulley, might help as well for the more top-heavy people.
Spur and flipline without a high TIP is LOTS more work. I've gotten to where I hang on my rope much more than I stand on my spurs during the course of a removal if there is cut and clean-up going on, in concert. I used to use a choked TIP below my flipline, and relied on strength and stamina to go,go,go. Then, as I got better at removals, and was more efficient, I'd climb back down a couple steps to hang on my climb line while waiting, then back up. As time progressed, and I got better at advancing my climbline overhead with accuracy (a steel biner and weight on the end can get your rope up a good ways), I would get TIPs somewhat overhead, and hang whenever I wasn't using my spurs for upward movement (really, sharing the weight a bit on the spurs, and using them for positioning). My spurs don't have to be super plush or light, and importantly, they work for me, and you have to find what works for you. Also, with an overhead TIP, its easier to rely on pole gaffs, which torque your knees less, and are more stable in small wood, IME.
Grendel
TreeHouser
This is great advice! Get a HAAS and a Pantin, it's a really elegant setup and works like a charm.
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
IMO, tree gaffs stick better especially for off camber placement like a big knot or crook ect.
With offset shanks they come left and right. Someone made a boo boo when they sent them to you Randy.
My Bashlins are straight shaft my Kline's are off set.
With offset shanks they come left and right. Someone made a boo boo when they sent them to you Randy.
My Bashlins are straight shaft my Kline's are off set.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
I think that for a bigger person, more gaff penetration will be more important. I bet I am only in bark a lot at the bottom of doug-fir with pole gaffs, but don't gaff out. Much less torque on the knee as the bark gets thinner and thinner, I believe.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
I was wondering about that. I thought that one would use spurs OR a rope, not both at the same time. Makes great sense, i was wondering how to rest while on spurs. Must be safer too, having a line on the tree while using spurs and a flip line. Thanks for the posts Sean.
I have been finding tips on how to get a (currently) fat guy ( hopefully not for long) up a tree. My learning has not been good lately, very busy keeping my old junk going, but I as still reading Mr. Beranek's book when i can.
I have been finding tips on how to get a (currently) fat guy ( hopefully not for long) up a tree. My learning has not been good lately, very busy keeping my old junk going, but I as still reading Mr. Beranek's book when i can.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
The Atkins diet always works for me.
You can 'rest' using your lanyard.
You can 'rest' using your lanyard.
Merle Nelson
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #483
Try stuff out first wherever possible.
MM Randy, You should’t have to buy anything to try it out. You have arguably the most valuable skill on this forum to any of the rest of us - making a saw sing. Who around you climbs and wants a good working saw? If you were around me I would have a ton of stuff for you to try that is not my main gear I rely on daily. (Additionally given that I highly suspect you’re not planning on going into tree work full time it would be easy to say yes to trading for some hands on climbing lessons and in person tips/coaching etc..)
FFZ Jim, did you get talked out of foot plates? Stood on the side of Redwoods for six hours a day on Mon. and Tue. and was thinking of an interesting and cheep test. My climbers look to be about same width as dimensional 2x lumber. Cut a couple of pieces to go under the arch of a set of your boots (could just duct tape in place for a few days.) Put them on and walk around doing chores or whatever. Maybe start at 15 min. and work the time up a ways.
Not an exact correlation to the feel of a climber under your foot I’m sure but if it’s not tolerable that would tell you a lot.
MM Randy, You should’t have to buy anything to try it out. You have arguably the most valuable skill on this forum to any of the rest of us - making a saw sing. Who around you climbs and wants a good working saw? If you were around me I would have a ton of stuff for you to try that is not my main gear I rely on daily. (Additionally given that I highly suspect you’re not planning on going into tree work full time it would be easy to say yes to trading for some hands on climbing lessons and in person tips/coaching etc..)
FFZ Jim, did you get talked out of foot plates? Stood on the side of Redwoods for six hours a day on Mon. and Tue. and was thinking of an interesting and cheep test. My climbers look to be about same width as dimensional 2x lumber. Cut a couple of pieces to go under the arch of a set of your boots (could just duct tape in place for a few days.) Put them on and walk around doing chores or whatever. Maybe start at 15 min. and work the time up a ways.
Not an exact correlation to the feel of a climber under your foot I’m sure but if it’s not tolerable that would tell you a lot.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
Merle, re: foot plates. The commercial ones are going to be a challenge to fit some spurs, but could be well worth it, especially if you don't have steel shank boots. I tried some that needed a bit of grinding to fit the shank.
A guy around here said he made a plywood sandwich around the stirrup (horizontal part) using a slight spacer. They worked for a few months and then he would make a new set in a few minutes. Custom shape to boot. A spacer between the two pieces of plywood as thick as, and front and rear of shank. Dunno. Plates raise your boot, especially a higher heel boot, possibly causing a problem of ankle/ shank contact, from what a guy told me of his experience. A low heel boot would be better.
Butch, do you mean to lean back in your saddle, keeping a lot of weight on your feet/ most of your weight on your feet? Unless you are lanyarded into your bridge area, going D to D with a heavy guy is going to be crushing. A high TIP means sitting down (imagining sweet NT saddles) or standing up or somewhere in between, sharing the weight and switching it around.
A guy around here said he made a plywood sandwich around the stirrup (horizontal part) using a slight spacer. They worked for a few months and then he would make a new set in a few minutes. Custom shape to boot. A spacer between the two pieces of plywood as thick as, and front and rear of shank. Dunno. Plates raise your boot, especially a higher heel boot, possibly causing a problem of ankle/ shank contact, from what a guy told me of his experience. A low heel boot would be better.
Butch, do you mean to lean back in your saddle, keeping a lot of weight on your feet/ most of your weight on your feet? Unless you are lanyarded into your bridge area, going D to D with a heavy guy is going to be crushing. A high TIP means sitting down (imagining sweet NT saddles) or standing up or somewhere in between, sharing the weight and switching it around.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I meant to take a break while ascending, stop and lean back on your lanyard.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Sean is talking about finding a way to take some load off the feet. I like a top rope if I have to spur up and limb as I go up...means I alread have that 2nd safety set as I make cuts. And sitting in my Ness Pro Gear is comfy and rests the footsies.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Does that take a different type of saddle than the basic starter type saddle?
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
Jim, its just a matter of having a connection on the front of the saddle.
Are you top heavy in a saddle? You might consider a saddle with an add-on structural chest harness. Its possible to fall out of a tree saddle. In addition to fall-out protection, and a rescue aid (a ventral/ dorsal attachment point on some), it can be a mounting point for a chest ascender or clip-in loop.
I've been using the over-the-shoulder lanyard technique to mind (pull up my HH as I ascend). I did a different trick yesterday that worked out well with an already existing part of my SRT HH Rope Walker set-up. Some use an elastic to their chest harness or over the neck. I use an elastic cord tied in a loop with a lot of small clip-in loops tied along the length by tying overhand knots. This give me 8 thumb loops and a clip-in point options for advancing my HH.
I will have my helmet cam today, and hope to have some good images, though I don't know anything about editing, yet.
Are you top heavy in a saddle? You might consider a saddle with an add-on structural chest harness. Its possible to fall out of a tree saddle. In addition to fall-out protection, and a rescue aid (a ventral/ dorsal attachment point on some), it can be a mounting point for a chest ascender or clip-in loop.
I've been using the over-the-shoulder lanyard technique to mind (pull up my HH as I ascend). I did a different trick yesterday that worked out well with an already existing part of my SRT HH Rope Walker set-up. Some use an elastic to their chest harness or over the neck. I use an elastic cord tied in a loop with a lot of small clip-in loops tied along the length by tying overhand knots. This give me 8 thumb loops and a clip-in point options for advancing my HH.
I will have my helmet cam today, and hope to have some good images, though I don't know anything about editing, yet.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
I will use a steel biner and throw weight. A steel snap with weight is as good. My steel core flipline has a snap!
I like to try to advance my line 8-12+' at a time, and choke it off. The steel and weight is needed for me, frequently. I just leave the weight on the biner on my saddle.
Guess I've gotten so used to just forwarding my line without a weight, it never occurred to me to use one.
As for the snaps I was only referring to the ease of getting them attached/unattached as compared to tying a knot or using a biner (much easier/quicker for me anyway).
As for the snaps I was only referring to the ease of getting them attached/unattached as compared to tying a knot or using a biner (much easier/quicker for me anyway).
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Snaps rule! 
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
How about a bosun's seat if a guy really has a lot of foot pressure that would turn into saddle pressure if switched to load the saddle?
I am sore from my saddle on my hips from a three hours of spurless, largely free-hanging climbing in two sessions yesterday. I have recently gone from lean to a hair skinny, and my Ergolite, which is very comfy feels like I'll fall out of it when I'm really laying out there, so I'm back in my Glide II.
I am sore from my saddle on my hips from a three hours of spurless, largely free-hanging climbing in two sessions yesterday. I have recently gone from lean to a hair skinny, and my Ergolite, which is very comfy feels like I'll fall out of it when I'm really laying out there, so I'm back in my Glide II.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
The heavier the climber is, the less time they're gonna be able to stand comfortably on spurs - period.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
A basic saddle is meant to keep you safe, not comfortable. Comfort, or less discomfort, is what we are after. This costs.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
FWIW, and it might have been said, you can add as much mechanical advantage as you want in a climbing system for rope ascent. Typical Doubled Rope Techique is 2:1 (minus a bunch for friction, unless you use a pulley). There are ways to increase this.
A big guy might need extra wraps on a blake's hitch to keep it from cinching too tightly. My old supervisor had this issue at 230-240 plus gear.
A big guy might need extra wraps on a blake's hitch to keep it from cinching too tightly. My old supervisor had this issue at 230-240 plus gear.
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
Alot of being comfortable in spurs is trial and error. I haven't always been chubby. When I speed climbed " tower loggin style " I weighed 180 lbs and used my hands to control myself. I had the muscle to do it and considered the pain to be just part of loggin. Now I use a top rope a lot when I climb tho I still mainly spur climb. Its nice to be able to fully sit in the saddle. As FFZ will be wearing his Whites Smoke Jumpers they have an OK arch as far as strength goes I don't know if foot plates will work for him. My saddle reccomendation is the Weaver Cougar size XL. Its what I wear and it works good. I created quite a bit of right knee pain and problems for myself when I put the big Buck pads on my Kline spurs. They were so comfy that I allowed my legs to hang out more than when I had the L pads on them. It put more side thrust on my knee joints and it got so I had a hard time bending my knees. . My take from it was, just because my shins don't hurt doesn't mean something else won't. .
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
So I'll concentrate on my posture more. I use a short section of throw line and a 20 oz throw bag to advance my rope but I'm thinking of going to a snap on the end of my rope with the 20 oz bag.
I have gotten most all my climbing gear from WesSpur. But will start using TreeStuff also.
IMO drt and spurs/flip line combined is the easiest and safest way to learn to climb and work in a tree.
I have gotten most all my climbing gear from WesSpur. But will start using TreeStuff also.
IMO drt and spurs/flip line combined is the easiest and safest way to learn to climb and work in a tree.
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
My reccomendation for his gear
Weaver Cougar Saddle
150' of Samson ArborPlex
Set of spurs with L pads w/ foam soccer pads w/ tree gaffs
Hitch climber pulley w/ swivel snap.
Climb Right 5/8" wire core flipline kit.
2, Rock O auto lock biners and 2, Rock Pirate biners.
200' 3/8" Samson Tenex
Samurai Heavy Duty 13" hand saw.
16 oz throw bag w/150' of throw line.
And a climbing helmet.
An aluminum rescue 8
He can use a Blakes and be secure and productive and as his skills increase he can upgrade.
Once he gets to upgrading one of the first upgrades would be a Big Shot.
Weaver Cougar Saddle
150' of Samson ArborPlex
Set of spurs with L pads w/ foam soccer pads w/ tree gaffs
Hitch climber pulley w/ swivel snap.
Climb Right 5/8" wire core flipline kit.
2, Rock O auto lock biners and 2, Rock Pirate biners.
200' 3/8" Samson Tenex
Samurai Heavy Duty 13" hand saw.
16 oz throw bag w/150' of throw line.
And a climbing helmet.
An aluminum rescue 8
He can use a Blakes and be secure and productive and as his skills increase he can upgrade.
Once he gets to upgrading one of the first upgrades would be a Big Shot.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
How's the swivel snap fit in? 3/8" tenex?
Good list.
By the way. A starter rope bucket is okay if you're not packing all over the place. Any bucket or cardboard box of decent size could work, more or less.
Rockman has helmets (structural chin strap) for about $30.
Good list.
By the way. A starter rope bucket is okay if you're not packing all over the place. Any bucket or cardboard box of decent size could work, more or less.
Rockman has helmets (structural chin strap) for about $30.
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