August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #426
btw Reg, I know you know all that. Just pointing out what I think "they" mean when they laud the use of the SJ with pulley.
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August Hunicke Videos
- Thread starter August Hunicke
- Start date
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btw Reg, I know you know all that. Just pointing out what I think "they" mean when they laud the use of the SJ with pulley.
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Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
Tucker: definitely wasn't talking about democratic rule here. Of course 95% of American climbers still use Ddrt; but then, you or I wouldn't dream of letting one of our tight-bid removal jobs be done by 95% of American climbers. Mind you: I am not saying that there are not better climbers than I that still use dDrt. I'm just claiming that Srt is without doubt faster, more efficient, safer, and generally superior; AND I'm predicting that Srt will soon be the majority preference. Of course stodgy old-timers like you and I and August will still insist on climbing on antiquated systems, because that's what we're used to. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Cept for the smart old dogs.
You know what I mean... the Burnham types.
I bet you are right. Heck, guys once climber on manila ropes.....
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I have, and you'd better wear gloves!
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
I touched it once, bare handed also. Never again.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Imagine climbing, hanging on it all day. Not fun.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
It softened up after a month or two.
RegC
TreeHouser
Saying you get the best out of the sj combined with a rope guide verses a sj isn't worth a shit without a rope guide are quite different statements. I was quoting the latter.
The effort required to pull a line through a rope guide, or natural crotch has no bearing on whether you are using a sj or friction hitch. In the case of the sj, the line falls through the device exactly the same. No everyone prefers ropeguides for every situation. No less reason to use a sj if youre running your line through a natural crotch. It tends just the same, always within reach, compact, ergonomic, but with less wear on the clutch. Its still a great device, rope guide or not.
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #433
I understand. I've heard many people insist on the use of a rope guide for specific use with the SJ, and I think they do so because they like the way the line falls through the SJ under its own weight and don't want to hinder that effect with any undue friction. So a big proponent of the SJ might use terminology like "it ain't worth the trouble without having the full benefit of that feature" (my g-rated version of the quote.) I guess I'm just attempting to explain why so many people might talk like that about it. I have friends that have switched to it and talk like it's the greatest invention in the world, but they always add, "if you get the rope guide with it."
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #434
Reg, "The effort required to pull a line through a rope guide, or natural crotch has no bearing on whether you are using a sj or friction hitch."
What friction hitch is there that has rope fall through it unassisted by the hands, without a significant weight on the line. I thought mechanical hitches were made with the added benefit of eating slack more efficiently because the rope hitches hold the standing end of the line more-so as one ascends.
What friction hitch is there that has rope fall through it unassisted by the hands, without a significant weight on the line. I thought mechanical hitches were made with the added benefit of eating slack more efficiently because the rope hitches hold the standing end of the line more-so as one ascends.
mistahbenn
Treehouser
Aug, a well dressed and set VT will have slack tend the line with enough weight in the rope.... I use a 5 wrap vt, that Reg taught me back in the day, and I still use to this day. My fave hitch. The newer the hitch cord the better too.
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #436
I hear you Benn, I even got my vt to self tend for a couple seconds the other day with a new cord ( as I pulled rope straight into it ) but aren't the mechanical devices made with the intention that they do that even better? Perhaps even allowing a guy to focus on climbing, say for example, on spurs, and not even pulling the rope?
RegC
TreeHouser
If there's considerably less doubled rope above the the sj than what's hanging below (I don't mean just lying on the ground) then with the addition of a rope guide/pulley the rope will often tend itself as you say spur towards the rope guide. Its sorta cool when you realize what's happening, but not that bigger deal. Usually on a tall straight up tree.
If you working off a single stem conifer for instance, stripping it out but with your climbline already installed at a high point, an easy self tending hitch system is to simply but a strap from the bridge of your harness as an in between for the carabinier your hitch is on....so you pull the climbline at an arms reach from underneath your hitch and it self tends. Climbers have been doing it forever in some shape or form, but only good for going up or back from a limbwalk.
Mechanical devices have some great ergonomic values....but I personally don't believe they tick as many safety boxes as does a traditional friction cord....or at least, they are a lot less forgiving. Problem is you get used to them and then going back to a friction cord or tradition hitch feels like work.
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #438
I think my terminology must be confusing people. I know how to self tend a Blake or other hitch by using a pulley below the knot and either positioning the hitch above me enough to pull the rope below the knot, or having somebody hang on the rope while I focus on climbing. But true self tending, as I've hoped it would be, with a mechanical hitch device (probably with over expectation) would be when the rope weight below me easily pulled the slack through the device with me only focusing on climbing the tree and paying little mind at all to the rope. If I'm not mistaken, the Spider-Jack and the Zig-Zag are probably the most capable of doing this and even more so with a pulley as a tie in. That's all I have been trying to say this whole time I think, and in an effort to explain what somebody else said before about the Spider Jack needing a pulley for its best function.
I haven't even got around yet to telling you my first Spider Jack experience. And it was no fun. I'm trying to have an open mind and try different things long enough to understand their advantages and trade-offs, but honestly I am leaning strongly toward my standard and old methods. My last video has been misunderstood by some. It was more about the love of tree stuff, not the love of the hitch climber system. I should have summarized my view of the hitch climber system at the end of the video but I didn't because I still need time with it otherwise I feel I am not open-minded enough. At least you forum guys have the nitty-gritty details.
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I haven't even got around yet to telling you my first Spider Jack experience. And it was no fun. I'm trying to have an open mind and try different things long enough to understand their advantages and trade-offs, but honestly I am leaning strongly toward my standard and old methods. My last video has been misunderstood by some. It was more about the love of tree stuff, not the love of the hitch climber system. I should have summarized my view of the hitch climber system at the end of the video but I didn't because I still need time with it otherwise I feel I am not open-minded enough. At least you forum guys have the nitty-gritty details.
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MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Rope runner might be the ticket ...... Singing tree product... Currently out of stock though
RegC
TreeHouser
No Confusion here. I mentioned the hands free self tending in my last post. The key factors are having more rope weight below the climber than above; rope/pulley guide up top; unimpeded friction free line between the climber and rope guide. It rarely happens to be honest, until you're near the top quarter of a tree.
You shouldn't dismiss a a vt micropulley set up either. Check out some of Taylor Hamel's hitch climber vids on YouTube as some good examples.
I'm assuming you gopro'd you first spiderjack trial ? Common August, let's have it !
NHlocal
TreeHouser
mistahbenn
Treehouser
Yeh warts and all
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #444
Nope. Didn't go pro it. I actually do lots of camera-less work. Just cut some lower limbs off a smallish Doug Fir tree and swung from it to a smallish oak tree to cut a couple overhanging limbs from a house. Used brand new 11 mm line.
Didn't like the way I had to futz with the SJ before sitting back into it. I don't want to have to sit back hard in order to make it bite.
Also, I experienced the sudden drop like a rock scenario that happens when the cam is inadvertently bumped. Don't like that it sits there waiting to ambush me like the trip plate to a carnival dunk tank. . . And me running a saw. Also it didn't eat slack on its own nearly as cool as I hoped it would. I had to feed the line straight in to its picky little mouth like I was threading a needle. pita.
Also, at one point I attempted to reroute the standing end of my rope around an oak trunk. I un-clipped the SJ from my belt and went to move the rope around to the other side of the tree. Of course the SJ then ran to the bottom of the tree on my rope in slack-eating perfection and left me calling for ground support to send me my stupid gadget back. I walked away from the experience thinking it was an accident waiting to happen and expecting it would be banned like the three-wheel ATC's of the 80's were after the hospitals filled up.
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Didn't like the way I had to futz with the SJ before sitting back into it. I don't want to have to sit back hard in order to make it bite.
Also, I experienced the sudden drop like a rock scenario that happens when the cam is inadvertently bumped. Don't like that it sits there waiting to ambush me like the trip plate to a carnival dunk tank. . . And me running a saw. Also it didn't eat slack on its own nearly as cool as I hoped it would. I had to feed the line straight in to its picky little mouth like I was threading a needle. pita.
Also, at one point I attempted to reroute the standing end of my rope around an oak trunk. I un-clipped the SJ from my belt and went to move the rope around to the other side of the tree. Of course the SJ then ran to the bottom of the tree on my rope in slack-eating perfection and left me calling for ground support to send me my stupid gadget back. I walked away from the experience thinking it was an accident waiting to happen and expecting it would be banned like the three-wheel ATC's of the 80's were after the hospitals filled up.
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August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #445
I figure it might be less touchy if I go up a bit from 11 mm. Plan on trying it again just to be fair. Because the Spider-Jackery videos are so heroic.
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RegC
TreeHouser
Well dont give up just yet. A couple small trees like that you're probably not gonna feel much benefit. I didnt have a great first outing either, although not as negative as what you just described. It takes time August, but it usually turns out worth while for those who persevere. However, If you're really freaked out and feel unsafe then maybe you should discontinue. When I was struggling at first, I watched the Joe Harris video and drew strength from that, like 'there's no way he can do something that I cant fuckn do'....so I practiced, concentrated and made the necessary adjustments to my thinking. Now its all good. For removals its deadly (meaning good).
RegC
TreeHouser
Try it without a rope/pulley guide. Much less jerky. While you get used to it.
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #448
Yeah, part of the initial attraction I felt was that it would be kick-butt for removals. I'll carry on with my experiments.
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August,
I don't know if you've tried it yet or if anyone recommended trying armor-prus hitch cord. It is great stuff, great response and durable in my experience. I like both 8mm and 10mm, and prefer 10.
Not a fan of ocean, but that's just me.
I don't know if you've tried it yet or if anyone recommended trying armor-prus hitch cord. It is great stuff, great response and durable in my experience. I like both 8mm and 10mm, and prefer 10.
Not a fan of ocean, but that's just me.
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
I wouldn't go larger. I actually went smaller 10.5 Platinum. I think its got it all beat.
Really feel like a spider now! solid feel to this rope maybe 1/2 as mushy as the velocity and
Ropeguide does help tons and I miss it quite alot when I try to shortcut and not install it.
I place a micro sling and screwlink in the system for pogressing and on fat spars or doubleing up on leads I can add and eye to eye to make it longer.
Dude I can't wait to see you master it. I think your fast now.
Oh worried about the bump/drop? just take the rope over and tuck between the body and the brake.
I think its safe, works for me plenty of time especially because I like climbing on worn cams a bit to much.
Really feel like a spider now! solid feel to this rope maybe 1/2 as mushy as the velocity and
Ropeguide does help tons and I miss it quite alot when I try to shortcut and not install it.
I place a micro sling and screwlink in the system for pogressing and on fat spars or doubleing up on leads I can add and eye to eye to make it longer.
Dude I can't wait to see you master it. I think your fast now.
Oh worried about the bump/drop? just take the rope over and tuck between the body and the brake.
I think its safe, works for me plenty of time especially because I like climbing on worn cams a bit to much.
