alternatives in land use

[FireFighterZero]

We are looking at some different options there too Cory.

I must confess that I am not a true believer in organics, way too much politics and feel good stuff, way too little actual science.

However, I am a businessman, a poor one, but you get the idea. There is a Western States Sustainability program that we could enroll in, with some difficulty, but that would open some markets to us.

They buy organic and all natural (different categories) beef. What we could do is raise some grass fats and then sell them to this outfit.

The packer that is in this program told us that if they ever get enough product to sell they have buyers in Seattle that would pay 8 bucks a pound for hamburger. They cant supply in state at this point, the local demand is too high.

I read an article this morning about restaurants that are paying a premium to the packers for smaller beef. The beef they get now are too large, too fatty. The brisket that is so popular now with the BBQ craze is too fatty, too little meat. The steaks are too big, people want smaller steaks.

We as producers will not see any of that premium. This kind of disconnect from the producers to the packers and feeders has had the effect of producers looking to other markets.

If you think about it, it is not very hard to realize that the producers are at the absolute bottom of the food chain.

I can raise organic wheat and get paid 19 dollars a bushel. That loaf of bread is a dollar or two more than regular bread. Conventional wheat is 4.50 right now. The money is not going to the farmer or rancher.

Its sorta like the Obama care disaster. Hospitals that dont take any govt money are doing much better business now. They charge less for their services, and make more money for their employees.

 

[cory]

I don't follow why the producers aren't able to cash in on the huge demand in Wash. for the all natch beef?

 

[FireFighterZero]

Its difficult because of the regulations and fees involved in getting certified.

They dont want more people doing it so that they can keep the prices up. Its not a true co-op.

Grass fats are quite a bit more work than grain fats, for the producer anyway. You dont just run them longer on regular pasture, at least not anymore. They need to be finished by a certain age and it takes a lot of management to save pastures with the right amount of proper forage to get them there.

Its a big gamble because you cant use those pastures for cow calf pairs, and cow calf pairs are still a viable source of income. It takes more transportation to get them to market.

Banks are not as likely to lend money because of the risk. The old saying for grass fats and yearlings is that there is two ways to go, make a killing or lose your ass.

If the market goes down, you have invested a lot more time and money into a yearling or a grass fat than a calf sold in the fall. So ranchers tend to manage their risk by selling calves.

So the ranchers dont go all in. Raising a few to try it out because of the risk and amount of land involved. We hate trying something new! Even if it looks good.\

The small packers themselves struggle with all the rules and regulations involved in shipping meat over state lines. The big packers can get the USDA to deny permits to small packers.

Here in Montana, we dont have a large packing operation, used too but the big packers got them shut down.

We produce the beef and feed needed to produce boxed beef, but the govt and big packers have made it illegal. So we truck calves to the feedlots, out of state.

It is too costly to ship finished beef, either grass of grain finished, to the packers. Cant get as many animals on the trailer.

So until these small packers get permission to ship across state lines, we are kinda fooked.

 

[cory]

Its a jungle out there. Thanks for the info.

 

[Cobleskill]

My buddy down near Middletown Ny(home of Orange County Choppers) has an organic grass fed beef operation. He gets $5.55 hanging weight and $7.00 for ground beef. I brought it up here at the House and there was a little bit of thought that he was gouging. Easy to think when you don't know the whole picture. Just getting certified is a costly process. I bought some honey from a bee keeper and he explained why raw honey costs more than processed. The general thought is-less work on the bee keepers part should make it cheaper. Turns out it is a lot more time involved in the process when you can't heat the honey up.

 

[cory]

It's not gouging if he is selling plenty of product, more power to him.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I did not know that about honey.

Why would it matter to people?

 

[cory]

Putting this in here cuz it seems this is kind of a Sustainability thread.

Making clothing anti-stink additive from crabshells and leather products from salmon skins, all sustainably caught in AK

http://store.tidalvisionusa.com/pages/about-us

 

[FireFighterZero]

I mean, if the honey was heater or not. Never seemed like a big deal. Why dont people like heated honey?

 

[FireFighterZero]

Uhh, upcycled?

Who gets to decided what all these buzz words mean? Sustainable?

 

[DMc]

I mean, if the honey was heater or not. Never seemed like a big deal. Why dont people like heated honey?

Heat kills enzymes and other incredibly important components needed for optimal bodily functions. Look at all the rest of the animal kingdom, see any that heat and prossess virtually evey item they consume? There is much more to food than protein, fat and carbohydrates, well at least there should be.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Well, sure. But I aint never seen no coyote with thumbs and a stove.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Well, so I dont come across as a TOTAL cynical prick, I did read a study that showed some differences in raw vs. processed honey.

Namely, pollen content. Filtering and heating removed almost all of the miniscule pollen content of honey.

Dont get me wrong, I am not against everything. Okay, so I might be against fish wallets and dirty honey.....

You know how long people used to live when the "paleo" diet was invented a bunch of years ago?

Never mind, I am digging deeper........

 

[cory]

"Sustainable" is a word with intuitive meaning, no?

Upcycle, no idea what that means.

In general, as with the theme of that website, I dig getting use from that which was previously considered garbage.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I dont know about sustainable Cory. Means a lot of different things to different people. I get the feeling sometimes that it is just advertising. How do you prove its sustainable? More sustainable than what? Just cause you say dont make it so.

Anyway, I was just teasing youse guys a bit.

I dig the wallet thing too. We throw away too much good stuff, kudos to them for finding a way to make something out of would be garbage.

Now if we could just stop using so damned much plastic, water bottles and packaging, I would be a lot friendlier!

I save glass bottles and jars, much to my wife's disgust. Never throw away a good plastic can either.

 

[Cobleskill]

The bee keep I talked to used a filter to get extraneous material removed. Not fine enough to get the pollen out. Cooking is also supposed to destroy anti-oxidants and enzymes.

Plus some flavor is lost. Kind of the difference between apple cider and apple juice. No comparison there. I grew up on raw milk. Sure does taste better.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I like raw milk better as well.
I think its illegal now.

 

[kevin bingham]

http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw-milk-nation-interactive-map/

montana it is. terrible. i would have thought a libertarian leaning western state would not be so draconian. In north carolina its legal only as pet food. they are pushing hard to illegalize it here

 

[FireFighterZero]

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU......

We dont stand up for ourselves very often. Of course, we are out numbered quite badly now.

The hipster Californians dont want raw milk in their fancy coffee.

 

[kevin bingham]

but it is totally legal in California.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Thats whats weird.

I guess they had to move up here to wreck shit.

 

[kevin bingham]

I don't know, you can say what you want about californians but most of our food comes from there. They spend a lot more time thinking about food than we do. The farmers markets in Cali are amazing and the diversity and quality of food is amazing. I lived in California for 5 years and the only thing I miss is the food. Thats partly climate, but also culture. Here In the midwest people seem perfectly fine eating fast food and garbage. Good food means cheap food. It doesn't surprise me that Raw milk is legal in California because there is a lot more people there that care about the quality of their food. On that map, a lot of the southern states have outlawed raw milk too which to me is an unacceptable sign of overreaching government. In Michigan, there is an ongoing fight and the people that care about good food seem to be losing. Its not about Repub and Dems as there are evil people on both sides that want food production out of the hands of the people and consolidated in the hands of the few.

 

[treetx]

The higher price a commodity fetches for being "natural", etc the higher the chances are that it will be stepped on (adulturated) at some point in the supply chain.

Honey is a big one, so is olive oil. Honey is typically stepped on with corn syrup but now that IRMS testing is common, to get around the isotope ratio mass spec, it is often cut with a rice sugar - (hello quadrapole mass spec). Olive oil gets stepped on with everything from cheaper grades of olive oil to peanut oil.

Organic commodities are prone to corruption because a simple sticker can add a 50% margin. The incentives are there.

 

[squisher]

I dunno about you but I always avoid produce that looks like it's been stepped on.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I got nothing against Californians.

I like quite a few of them. When they come to Montana and buy a little slice of paradise for 5 times market value and start telling me how to live, I get a little rangey.

I suspect regular Californians are glad when the hipster ones move away. Of course Montana is one big National Park, so how could anyone resist? West of Great Falls anyway. Only Texans come up here.

Wilkes Brothers. Cough/spit.