alternatives in land use

[FireFighterZero]

Is that right Butch? Me? Imma just an Eskimo. I guess that qualifies me as Indian yeah?

Maybe someday Cory. I need a sponsor if I go, but I still have a bunch of friends in Heart Butte which is south of there.

I dont look native, but have quite a bit of native blood, must be why I cant grow a proper beard. You gotta look Indian to play.

We are going to start taking in a few Powwows, mainly to expose the kids. Really trying to head off any racism before it takes hold. They are color blind now, would like to keep it that way as much as possible.

 

[FireFighterZero]

We had a meeting with some of our landlords tonight. Told them all about cover crops and safflower tonight. Their focus is mostly money, but were very receptive to the new ideas that we have.

So far I am 100% on selling this stuff to people. I should have been a politician!

I have found audiences very receptive when they listen to the benefits, and the fact there is virtually no downside. Well, in theory. They do like the money savings aspect very much.

 

[cory]

 

[MasterBlaster]

No, not Eskimo...

American Indian.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Yeah, thats what I meant.

Did not know that.

I have got one of those DNA kits, mom gave it to me for my birthday. I have been doing a bunch of genealogy work, just dont have a bleeding clue about myself.

I guess I am going to find out once and for all what my heritage is. I am hoping they did not write down Eskimo as a joke on my adoption papers! Seems like it said English, Irish, French and Eskimo. Odd combo.

 

[FireFighterZero]

View attachment JimConrad_FullSeasonOption.pdf

https://www.masterblasterhome.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68262&d=1457286131

 

[DMc]

Jim, how did you get that? I couldn't get the Green Cover seeds calculator to print out like that. That looks like a good, diverse mix. Did you pick them out or were they suggestions.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I wish I could post it properly so you guys can see it, but I am glad you figured out how to view it Dave.

We had several interactions with Kate Vogel, the co owner of North 40 Ag. After listening to our needs and perceived resource concerns she came up with that mix and we tweaked it together.

She has another that we are not satisfied with, and are still working on it.

The page itself was just something she sent to me in an email. Not sure how she was able to print it off or download it. She has a dealer log in, maybe thats how she did it.

Glad you think it is a good looking mix.

 

[FireFighterZero]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/x1SgmFa0r04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Explains why is might be so important to keep a living plant growing as long as possible in our operations.

 

[Steve Mack]

Hey NASA don't blame us.

Indonesian fires, mostly to clear land for agricultural purposes have been releasing more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere each day on average than the entire economy of the United States or Australia & South Africa combined. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/i...uce-more-co2-than-united-states/#.Vt65SbV0aHs

Pretty good reason to keep everything growing.

 

[Steve Mack]

Well speaking of growing plants, I don't know where else to put this. I was reading about this place yesterday, never heard of it before. Svalbard Global Seed Vault, if the link doesn't work just Google that.https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topic...landbruk/svalbard-global-seed-vault/id462220/

Best video I could find in English.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QHw4AxJX5Wo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[FireFighterZero]

Just let us keep producing! I have yet to cut down any rain forest.

 

[DMc]

Speaking of rain forests. The equatorial forests are great examples of the fallacy in our "reduce competition for best resource use". How is it that some of the poorest soils on earth can support hundreds of thousands of diverse life forms per unit of land and still not run out of nutritional resources.

 

[stig]

Steve, I was harvesting seeds for that. I've been the in house tree climber for the university of Copenhagen and the Arboretum of Denmark for a long time.
Not a bad position to have for an old, worn out logger. Sure makes for some interesting jobs.

Apart from the weather being super fine, and the woman they sent out to assist me being the same,and the fact that they paid me really well to climb some of the oldest, most remote trees in Denmark, being part of that project was just something else.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I dont follow you Dave. Reduce competition for best resource use?

I always thought that if I produce more, less rain forest needs cut down. Is that right?

 

[DMc]

Jim, I am talking about what we are taught about forest health and crop production. Competition free monocultures and 28 foot spacing for Ponderosa pines with the removal of understory that "competes" for resource.

There are many examples in nature that dispute that axiom.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Ahh, I got you.

I guess thats the thing about nature, it hates a monoculture.

Interesting thing about cover crops, if you take a mix with 6 species and seperate them and grow them in a monoculture they will perform poorly. Throw them all back together and plant them, they thrive. They all provide something the other plant needs. Its cool stuff.

 

[Cobleskill]

What was that stupid commercial about it's not nice to fool Mother Nature?

 

[Underwor]

Speaking of rain forests. The equatorial forests are great examples of the fallacy in our "reduce competition for best resource use". How is it that some of the poorest soils on earth can support hundreds of thousands of diverse life forms per unit of land and still not run out of nutritional resources.

According to the soils texts, almost all of the nutrients in rain forest soils are tied up in growing biomass. This system keeps it from being leached away by the ever present rains. Many of the bigger plants are very alleleopathic, particularly to their own kind. They do not share well. Slash and burn systems only work about 2 years before the removal of crops eliminates all the rest that is there and is not leached away. The basis of Bio-Char is Terra Preta from the amazon region. Here are some links about it. Hope this helps.

http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/research/terra preta/terrapretamain.html
http://www.biochar.info/biochar.terra-preta.cfml

 

[FireFighterZero]

I had a good meeting today, and a frustrating meeting today.

Met with our NRCS man and made some good headway on putting a whole farm plan together. Really starting to take shape. Got some mixes, plans and rotations together.

Then we went to a meeting all about chemicals and fertilizers. Was doing pretty well, I realize they are salesmen. Had some good info and some decent products to use while we make the switch.

Then a gal got up and spoke at the end. Reasearch official for the State. All about monocultures, high chemical rates, high fertilizer rates, no diversity, and more and more fallow.

When asked about cover crops, she did not think they were very befeficial in Montana. She did admit that they were working with them, but only to see how they would affect next years wheat crop. No interest in learning how they improve the soil health at all. She was certain that there was no money in covers, too expensive, and that monocultures were the way to improve soils, cover crops take too long. Cover crops were disease nests, would ruin your rotational crops, and used too much water.

All she wanted was yields. No mention of profits.

I did not have much interest in her presentation after that.

 

[cory]

I had a good meeting today, and a frustrating meeting today...

All she wanted was yields. No mention of profits.

Maybe instead of frustrating, you could think of it as a meeting which gave further confirmation of the sensible, beneficial nature of your approach.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I guess that is what is so frustrating about it Cory.

Montana is so far behind the times it is awful. People in other states have been doing this method for 25 years, with support from their State.

The NRCS, which is part of the USDA is really involved with these methods, and it shows. The enthusiasm they show for it is great. They have written books, sponsored trials, worked with the other States, and worked with the producers who literally wrote the books on these methods.

So our state pushes mono-culture wheat, chemicals, expensive machinery, and crop insurance. The experts admit that we are 15 years behind.

So, we will bypass the state. They have not been much use the last 30 years any way.

Our NRCS man is already planning tours to our place this summer, wants to get trials started, is gathering info, wants and NEEDS us to succeed. If we make it using these practices, he knows that others will follow suit.

We are working together to get speakers up here to talk, Marlon Winger and Gabe Brown are on the list. Shit, I am the pointy end of the spear!

You are right though, it really drove home the benefits of what we are doing.

Since I have little respect for the State's ag program, I might have been disappointed if they were really into cover crops! If the State thinks something is a good idea, chances are that it isnt.

 

[cory]

Shit, I am the pointy end of the spear!

Hell yeah, well suited for it too.

You got your face in the wind!!

 

[DMc]

.... Had some good info and some decent products to use while we make the switch.....

Have you settled on anything specific yet in the way of fertilisers? I can't remember if you said how you will be seeding. Do you have or access to a no-till drill?

That is so frustrating when you run into roadblocks with the people that are supposed to be helping you.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Nothing real specific. The cover crops will not be fertilized, only inoculated.

Starting from scratch on the peas for a cash crop I guess we are more or less stuck doing things their way.

A starter fertilizer of 15 to 25 units of N with 35 units of P is recommended, as well as an inoculant. That can change when we do soil samples, but we are not big fertilizers, so I would guess they recommend we use some fert.

Some of them are recommending a slow release foliar N, but we are not too sure. It can be tank mixed with a herbicide or a fungicide, and apparently improves efficacy of those chemicals.

A fungicide is highly recommended, as disease is a huge problem with pulse crops. Again, different farming practices lower the prevalence of disease, but we cant afford to take chances at this point.

Mainly a pre plant weed burndown is required first, then a fungicide. They are recommending desiccation prior to harvest with a paraquat, we dont like it, but it could mean the difference between making money and a total loss.

For the Safflower, it uses fertilizer kinda like wheat. It does not tolerate high rates of N with the seed, 10-15 units with the seed if placed in the seed row.

After the crop is up and established, a liquid fertilizer can be applied with stream nozzles, not foliar. We can put down 30 units of N with a liquid with our sprayer, and our safflower agronomist says that is all we will need. This is a good deal actually. With the ability to split your Nitrogen like that you can skip the extra fertilizer if the weather turns to hell. Good risk management. A far cry from the 100 to 150 units that the State recommends for wheat.

A pre plant burndown for grasses and broad leaves will be used for both. The safflower needs a fungicide as well, right when it flowers, and an in crop broadleaf and grass killer is available for safflower.

According to Gabe Brown and others, we need to transition our land slowly. The land is like a drug addict, it needs these amendments to produce adequate crops until the regenerative ag train really gets a rolling. I can live with that, its expensive, but we REALLY need a good crop this year!

We have a 50 foot no till Morris air seeder. It uses an acra plant type opener, very narrow for minimal disturbance. I wish it was narrower, but it is a good drill. We are still searching for a single disc drill.