Good analogy!
alternatives in land use
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Good analogy!
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
I just realized that I have to reread this entire thread before Saturday evening. I'm going to a Wild Turkey fundraiser thing with a good farmer friend of mine. This will be a great topic to get him going on. Last year I brought up the evil seed companies just to rile him. I just get him started enough to figure out what side he's on and go the opposite.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
A farmer can be an easy target. If'n were not complaining, were arguing!
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Rich....that's rich.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/20...t-conservation-program-shows-proof-of-success
I doubt it, but who knows. Rare to get good news out of China imo.
I doubt it, but who knows. Rare to get good news out of China imo.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Well, little update for those of you still listening along at home.
We took delivery of our cover crop seeds. They came in big poly bags, on pallets. 26,000 pounds worth of the stuff. We are the biggest single order this company has ever had, and first time growers. Everyone keeps saying how big a risk this is.
We are going to seed safflower first, peas second, lentils, thirds, and cover crops last. Not because they are less important, just that they need seeded last.
Right now I am using my cows to control the weeds in the stubble, instead of spraying them. I was going to have to spray the weeds at least once before the covers go in, and conventional wisdom is that fields must be kept absolutely clean of weeds.
Well, since I am now the cow with the concerned look on her face at the slaughter house, I am using my stock to do the job of chemicals. So, they are saving me about 8 grand in chemical, and I am resting my tame and native pastures.
It has taken a lot of hard work fencing, blocking out farms, digging in water lines, and what not.
We took delivery of our cover crop seeds. They came in big poly bags, on pallets. 26,000 pounds worth of the stuff. We are the biggest single order this company has ever had, and first time growers. Everyone keeps saying how big a risk this is.
We are going to seed safflower first, peas second, lentils, thirds, and cover crops last. Not because they are less important, just that they need seeded last.
Right now I am using my cows to control the weeds in the stubble, instead of spraying them. I was going to have to spray the weeds at least once before the covers go in, and conventional wisdom is that fields must be kept absolutely clean of weeds.
Well, since I am now the cow with the concerned look on her face at the slaughter house, I am using my stock to do the job of chemicals. So, they are saving me about 8 grand in chemical, and I am resting my tame and native pastures.
It has taken a lot of hard work fencing, blocking out farms, digging in water lines, and what not.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Watching here, Captain...admiring your tenacity, planning and follow through.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Here they are fallowing for me right now.
Wasn't sure where to post this. A video on guy they call an arborist from Michigan whose life mission has become helping save the earth by propagating redwoods which he says can fix massive amounts of carbon.
https://vimeo.com/137145457
https://vimeo.com/137145457
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I cried a bit...
Steve Mack
Life Member.
That's a lot of seed Jim. I really hope this works well for you, it'll benefit a lot of people.
Cobleskill
Treehouser
Working with nature is so much a better plan. I hope it works great and catches on. The chemical industry is like the drug industry, it can work but lots of nasty things can go with it.
An interesting short film on the concept of growing industrial hemp as a means of meeting many different needs. I do believe it definitely fits here in this thread.
https://vimeo.com/165600324
https://vimeo.com/165600324
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Hey! I said I was trying to be nice, stopped drinking and all. And now you wanna talk Hemp!!!!!!
I read a lot about the war hemp effort. I believe it was called the War Hemp Industries.
Very interesting, the process.
I read a lot about the war hemp effort. I believe it was called the War Hemp Industries.
Very interesting, the process.
Yup.
Hey while I got you there real quick, if rainy weather is a problem with your new farming/land approach, have you talked to that Gabe fella or anyone else with some experience regarding how to deal with a delayed start? 2 heads are better'n one.
Hey while I got you there real quick, if rainy weather is a problem with your new farming/land approach, have you talked to that Gabe fella or anyone else with some experience regarding how to deal with a delayed start? 2 heads are better'n one.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Oh, believe me. I have been talking to folks! All us farming types have been. Not Gabe Brown, he wont return me emails!
We have two types of cover crop mixes. One is an early season grass and broad leaf mix. It should have been in the ground earlier in May. The other is a full season cover crop that is supposed to go in the ground in June. We have time on that one. It has the tillage radishes and turnips in it, and if you plant them too early all they do is make seed, they will not send down the giant root.
The early one can go in the ground in June and grow just fine, it just wont be ready as soon as we wanted. No problem, we got tame and native pastures that we can go on to. We have not used hardly any of those because we have been grazing the stubble instead of spraying it. Couldn't spray it anyway, too wet all spring. In years past we could not have grazed like we are doing now. We had to put our farm into big blocks, run water lines and build fence.
So that part of the operation is fine, just going to be a bit late. We wont have to change plant varieties or anything. Lucky.
The cash crops we need to seed is another thing. It is already late to plant safflower and peas. The final plant date is the 20th. You loose insurance coverage every day after that date for 15 days. After that you cant insure that crop. The lentils are the 25th and spring wheat is the 20th of june.
Of course we could plant spring wheat and forget all the other crops, but all the spring wheat in the US is being planted this year knowing that you will lose money on every acre.
We are going to seed the safflower for sure, got the seed bought. The peas we will have to think about. If you get heat during the flower, they wont fill the pods. Lentils stand more heat so we will probably still plant those and the organic spring wheat we will absolutely seed.
If we get anymore significant rain we will have to reevaluate.
We have two types of cover crop mixes. One is an early season grass and broad leaf mix. It should have been in the ground earlier in May. The other is a full season cover crop that is supposed to go in the ground in June. We have time on that one. It has the tillage radishes and turnips in it, and if you plant them too early all they do is make seed, they will not send down the giant root.
The early one can go in the ground in June and grow just fine, it just wont be ready as soon as we wanted. No problem, we got tame and native pastures that we can go on to. We have not used hardly any of those because we have been grazing the stubble instead of spraying it. Couldn't spray it anyway, too wet all spring. In years past we could not have grazed like we are doing now. We had to put our farm into big blocks, run water lines and build fence.
So that part of the operation is fine, just going to be a bit late. We wont have to change plant varieties or anything. Lucky.
The cash crops we need to seed is another thing. It is already late to plant safflower and peas. The final plant date is the 20th. You loose insurance coverage every day after that date for 15 days. After that you cant insure that crop. The lentils are the 25th and spring wheat is the 20th of june.
Of course we could plant spring wheat and forget all the other crops, but all the spring wheat in the US is being planted this year knowing that you will lose money on every acre.
We are going to seed the safflower for sure, got the seed bought. The peas we will have to think about. If you get heat during the flower, they wont fill the pods. Lentils stand more heat so we will probably still plant those and the organic spring wheat we will absolutely seed.
If we get anymore significant rain we will have to reevaluate.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Haha! Thanks Cory. Experience? Some, mostly of what not to do! That fancy railroad job looks pretty good now!
I rely heavily on my father. There is a lot of stuff we are doing that he never did, but he is a logical person. He was not afraid to try stuff, and supports us all the way. He is also not afraid to tell us about stuff that doesnt work.
I rely heavily on my father. There is a lot of stuff we are doing that he never did, but he is a logical person. He was not afraid to try stuff, and supports us all the way. He is also not afraid to tell us about stuff that doesnt work.
I think we are all excited for you.
I put the word "new" in quotes earlier cuz afaik a lot of what you are doing is based on older, more traditional and proven techniques that are ultimatly based in logic and knowledge of how nature works, you have a good team with your Pops.
I put the word "new" in quotes earlier cuz afaik a lot of what you are doing is based on older, more traditional and proven techniques that are ultimatly based in logic and knowledge of how nature works, you have a good team with your Pops.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
My grandfather was kind of like that...brazen, not afraid to try stuff. He was born 1899...started the first bus service in GA in the 20's. Was also farming then, too, buying up surrounding land. He often thought outside the box, had several patents to his name...one used a tractor to drive a big buzz saw blade for cutting timber...back in the 40's I think. Another was a better way to cure tobacco (he developed a curing rack to hold the tobacco, rather than stringing it to tobacco sticks like most folks did).
Still following closely the Conrad Saga.
Still following closely the Conrad Saga.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Dave, we do very little tillage anymore. Got away from it a few years ago mainly as a time saver. I did not have the time to get everything done so we started spraying and got a no till air seeder.
So to prepare a "seed bed" now all we do is spray glyphosate and then we seed. We are no till farmers, except for the organic.
The ground still needs to be dry enough to seed, otherwise you "mud" it in. When it is too wet the packer wheels that follow each shank get muddy and the seed starts to stick to them. You get poor germination when that happens. One step dryer and the packer wheels to not get muddy but they do not "close" the rows. The packers close the groove left by the point on the end of the shank. That seed falls down a "boot" and lays in the groove that the shank/point makes. When it is too wet the packer cant close the groove and you get poor seed to soil contact. That seed may never germinate.
Some people try to broadcast the seed and then harrow or roll it into the ground. Trouble is that you have to double your rate to get the same plant population per square foot. That is an extreme last resort.
Cory, you are right. This "new" way is a mix of old and new. We are working with, not against nature.
There is a lot of cutting edge science involved though. We are figuring out why things work, why they have worked for thousands of years. Well, not we, but they. I am just reading their work.
I have probably said this before, but dad told me about some of the farming practices that were cutting edge a hundred years or so ago. A lot of that knowledge was brought up here with James J Hill and the Great Northern railway. He wanted the homesteaders to produce lots of stuff that he could haul away on his trains. With out the farmers he would be sunk.
A lot of those practices were forgotten, like cover crops and crop rotations. We were also forced out of those practices by the Feds and their crop insurance programs.
So to prepare a "seed bed" now all we do is spray glyphosate and then we seed. We are no till farmers, except for the organic.
The ground still needs to be dry enough to seed, otherwise you "mud" it in. When it is too wet the packer wheels that follow each shank get muddy and the seed starts to stick to them. You get poor germination when that happens. One step dryer and the packer wheels to not get muddy but they do not "close" the rows. The packers close the groove left by the point on the end of the shank. That seed falls down a "boot" and lays in the groove that the shank/point makes. When it is too wet the packer cant close the groove and you get poor seed to soil contact. That seed may never germinate.
Some people try to broadcast the seed and then harrow or roll it into the ground. Trouble is that you have to double your rate to get the same plant population per square foot. That is an extreme last resort.
Cory, you are right. This "new" way is a mix of old and new. We are working with, not against nature.
There is a lot of cutting edge science involved though. We are figuring out why things work, why they have worked for thousands of years. Well, not we, but they. I am just reading their work.
I have probably said this before, but dad told me about some of the farming practices that were cutting edge a hundred years or so ago. A lot of that knowledge was brought up here with James J Hill and the Great Northern railway. He wanted the homesteaders to produce lots of stuff that he could haul away on his trains. With out the farmers he would be sunk.
A lot of those practices were forgotten, like cover crops and crop rotations. We were also forced out of those practices by the Feds and their crop insurance programs.
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