What's the biggest problem you have with tree work, technique wise?

[gf beranek]

The variables of grain in the stump play a very important part. And Stig made a good point I have long felt strong about when making low stumps and the grain running out. Willy's point about the snap cut effect is so true also.

For me it all boils down to the integrity of the grain for hinge control. And for it I tend to make a bit higher stumps in the pursuit of clear vertical grain,, for control.

Oh, I've seen corners of the hinge pull out when making too low of a stump. And there was measurable distance for hingewood to work, but because the grain run towards the face there was essentially no hinge. Thus as Stig said a thicker hinge.

I'll just stump it higher rather than lower and not take that chance. It might not be politically correct, but I will follow my instincts.

 

[Altissimus]

G.F.B this is where judgement enters the falling picture .... every species has different hinging capabilities , and every specimen is unique , I am sure Stig would agree as well .... a seasoned faller will use this judgement that is only acrued through EXPERIENCE....

 

[gf beranek]

I first learned of parallax error when shooting close-ups with a view camera. To shoot a close up of a flower I would aligned the camera through the viewfinder, but the focal point of the lens was about 2 inches lower. So my close up shots never hit the mark.

Works the same on the stump. Once I learned what it was all about my photography and felling improved a whole lot.

 

[stig]

I'll just stump it higher rather than lower and not take that chance. It might not be politically correct, but I will follow my instincts.

Gerry, it is not about being politically correct.

Whenever we bid on falling work for the Danish forest service, the contract specifies: no stumps higher than ½ the point where the roots turn out.

Also we can only split a certain percentage of the logs and cause a max number of bark scrapes on standing trees of more than 30 cm2.

We are tied on hands and feet, when working for the state.

About the fiber runout.
Could you maybe put it into words, so everyone can understand what I'm talking about, please.
I'm a little handicapped here, writing in english, my second language.
You on the other hand, have a great ability to put things into writing, in an easily understandable way.
My apprentise is reading "High climbers and timber fallers", He is just so turned on by that book.
I didn't give it to him, till he had some climbing experience, so he'd be able to appreciate it. That has certainly turned out to be a wise move.

If you want to see the ( very different!!!) way, we do it here www.skoventreprenoeren.dk
At the low end of the first page, there is a video of me falling a beech. our national tree, no less!
in a normal year, I'll fall around 800-1000 of those.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Nice vid, Stig...I like the camera at the top of the lay, and then back to the stump. With those editing skills, you could get a job in Hollywood!

 

[Burnham]

Stig, you made your explaination of the fiber angle runout just fine, clear as can be. From your first post I was and still am in awe of your command of English, including a fine handle on idiomatic phrases. Please continue!

 

[squisher]

Yah I followed your explanation as well, made sense to me. Thanks.

 

[gf beranek]

Oh we have maximum stump height rules too, and I do my best to abide by them, but I will not stump a tree low to meet those rules if my instinct tells me better. Better yet, I'll cut the stump down after I fall the tree. Just to keep the foresters happy and off my tush.

 

[Stumper]

Stig, Jerry certainly is talented at explaining felling matters but your explanation was easily and instantly understandable to a bunch of tree faller fellers.

 

[gf beranek]

I must be losing my touch.

 

[Stumper]

I must be losing my touch.

How so, most esteemed tree falling guru?

 

[squisher]

I must be losing my touch.

I highly, highly doubt that.

 

[arborworks1]

Not at all Jerry.

 

[stehansen]

Nice vid Stig. Is that government owned land? What is done with the wood?

 

[gf beranek]

Just skimmed the posts and missed the real point.

 

[gf beranek]

There looked to be a lot of standing snags in that vid, Stig. Or was it just after the leaf drop? Either way nice vid, thanks for the link.

 

[Stumper]

Well, there you go Jer- you are a fine writer but you suck at reading.

 

[squisher]

Your explanation was very clear as well Jerry and I hear exactly what you're saying about doing what you know to be right rather than blindly following rules.

 

[stig]

The video is not made by me. I was asked by a guy making movies if he could use me as a model for an educational film, following the life of a beech tree from nut to furniture maker. Then he gave me a copy to use in lieu of payment.

Gerry, those are live beech trees, in winter plumage!
The way we do it here is to graduately take the trees out, leaving enough to resow the area. Then when the new little beechsprouts are well under way, we take the last of the old ones, leaving about 2-3 pr. acre as wildlife trees if it is state forest.
It's a tricky way to do it, because if you take too few out at first, you don't get enough sunlight for the seeds to grow, but if you let too much light in, the area will be overgrown in grass, which will strangle the new trees.
I hate taking the last ones out, the new growth will be head high,and since immature beech don't deciduate( I know that's not a word, but you get my meaning, right!) you can't see for shit and you run yourself to death because the trees are so far apart.
Then you have to think strategically when falling them, so you (and the skidder) smash as little of the new growth as possible.
The trees are bucked into logs of variable lengths. Basically we have a grading system where a totally clear, non twisted veneergrade log is an AA and a piece of knobby topnd better suited for firewood is a D.
The mill wil specify what they want, usually something like AB, but you can hang a little C on the end, if it doesn't look to bad. When we log 3 guys together, the logs have to be bucked exactly the same way from all of us. Talk about rocket science!!
Anything above the log is bucked to 2,8 meters and used for parquet flooring and firewood, thats the part where you can leave your brain at home.

 

[gf beranek]

"It's a tricky way to do it, because if you take too few out at first, you don't get enough sunlight for the seeds to grow, but if you let too much light in, the area will be overgrown in grass, which will strangle the new trees."

That's second growth management 101. There's a tricky balance to meet and it's different for every slope and draw and companion species mixed in.

"I hate taking the last ones out, the new growth will be head high,and since immature beech don't deciduate you can't see for shit and you run yourself to death because the trees are so far apart. Then you have to think strategically when falling them, so you (and the skidder) smash as little of the new growth as possible.

All too familiar, Stig, and that's where group selection solves a lot of the problems. Not all, but a lot.

 

[stig]

There are not many companion species found under beech. A mature beech forest closes allmost all light out in the leafy seasons, making it hard for anything to get started underneath.
We call old beech forest "pillared halls" because the trees stand like pillars with a leafy roof.
In spring the beech starts to unfurl its leaves in early may, and some species of flowers, most particularly white anemone have based their existence upon being able to flower and set seeds in those 3 weeks of spring before may.
They turn the forestfloor white and then the beech opens their leaves. Those are transparent at first, so everything is suffused by a greenish light.
That is the most beautiful time to work in the woods. It last for about two weeks, then the beech leaves turn impenetrable for light and it gets dark under the trees.
After the long dark winters we have, those two weeks fell real good.

Can you explain group selection, I haven't come across that expression before.

 

[gf beranek]

Group selection. Rather than uniformly thinning the stand two or three times over where the same ground and reproduction is subject to operations every five to ten years,, the ground is plotted out to take larger groups of trees and keep the operations in those areas only. Thus the reproduction in those areas will remain undisturbed over time when operations are carried on in adjacent plots. Group selection is not clearly defined plots of clear-cuts, but more irregular shape clearings that may follow geographic features, but not always. To the eye while walking through the woods it's hard to distinguish the openings from being natural or man made because there's no defined lines. kind of like a camo paint job. The success of this working the way it's intended is to keep all falling and logging operations within the selected group, and not disturb the rest.

That's the best I can do. Hope you can comprehend it.

 

[stig]

Thanks, Gerry.
That is pretty much the way they do it in the state forests here.
Never clearcut larger areas, and avoid straight lines in the landscape.
I just never heard the American name for it before.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think there are 2 things operating here. Stig's definition is great, must all ways remember what cuts we take in consideration tot he grain, when on ground as in tree. Only here on the ground must consider the change in grain from root to stem.

But, also to the consideration of the back cut height above face; what worx is going to be partly species dependant i think. Whereby coming up high on backside allows more flex from front side than if level becasue the front of hinge is more fortified when backcut is low.
Also, when backcut is high, the hinge must rip down between fibers, as it flexes forward. Different species (and wheter live etc. or not) seem to give different results in how the fibers spread away from each other on a high back cut (to hinge forward) and if they need the firmer bolstering of a lower backcut's shorter hinge height on forward side of hinge, also if they can take the longer stretch on hinge backside.