What, exactly IS a 'hack' tree person?

[High Scale]

Calling your post stupid isn't cool either. Stick around, I think we're all big enough to get through this.

Actually I called the question stupid, not the post, however, I apologize to the members for even bothering to bite.

Anyway, Two pictures, one a lapsed pollard that I pollarded last year, the Willows used to be pollarded to provide material for basket making and related products as you know, the second picture shows what happens when they are neglected and left to grow.

 

[jomoco]

Excellent examples of improper/neglected pollarding Highscale.

Good find!

I know I've seen pics of strikingly beautiful london plane tree pollards with huge elephants feet terminations, almost forming a perfectly symmetrical canopy.

It must have taken more than one arborist's lifetime to form such beautifully pollarded trees.

Good stuff guys.

jomoco

 

[Mr. Sir]

Here's a crape myrtle that I've done every spring for the past 10 years or so. It will be absolutely stunning when it blossoms.

 

[stig]

It is quite stunning, even without any leaves on.

 

[jomoco]

Imagine your tree after 100 years of such TLC Mr.Sir!

jomoco

 

[Paul B]

sorry, catching up to the thread...
Treevet, yes, Allee is a french term

From what I can figure, you cant pollard an excurrent tree but you could topiary it. Personally I dont like the look of topped trees but if its a choice of topping, pollarding or removing, it may be the most desirable option when one knows the outcome of the process and how to manage it as best as possible.

My parents have a 'hedge' of lombardy poplars, I coppice them at about 5 feet, I think we have done them 5 times since they were planted in the late 80's. The last time was a couple years ago and they were overdue, this past winter was easy peasy.

These pics are from when I did them this past winter, I will try to find the ones from a few years ago. The trees put on about 10 to 15 feet of growth each year giving my parents something nicer to look at than the big parking lot behind their house that gets used a lot, on Sundays...

 

[Paul B]

last time, November '06

As you can see the original pruning events were at different heights, I am learning as I go. This year Dad said he wanted to get the stumps below fence level, I did what I could.

 

[gf beranek]

Here's a crape myrtle that I've done every spring for the past 10 years or so. It will be absolutely stunning when it blossoms.

So many young arborists today would have a word to say to the contrary. And it is a failing point of the new generation to not accept old proven ways of arborculture. Worse is to for them to condemn it in open forums. When they are not even as old as the methods that took generations to prove really works.

As far as I know Shigo never address the issues that some old school ways could actually preserve trees in good health for longer than if they were left to themselves.

Bad arborculture is one thing. What is accepted is another, and what really is good for the tree.. well.... is all left to interpretation. But nonetheless proper pollarding is living proof that some old school ways will prove the naysayers wrong.

 

[squisher]

Really interesting thread. Around here I see many topped trees of pretty much all species not only surviving but thriving. We are behind the times here bigtime. Most of my competitors still advertise 'topping' and many people refer to my business as a 'tree topping' outfit when I tell them I own/operate my own tree service. I don't top trees often, but if I've made my case to the owner and they decide they still want it done. I'm not passing on the work when the tree is not going to not be topped but only not be topped by me.

Morality and the greater good and all is fine but I'm getting paid too. Maybe coming from a logging background and living somewhere where forests grow profusely all around me have lowered my standards in some of your eyes. I'll make my case for a tree but not often am I going to turn down work.

 

[Mr. Sir]

According to Shigo

"94. PRUNING TO REGULATE SIZE AND SHAPE
Pollarding, or high coppicing, are the terms given to the practice of regulating size and shape. To be done correctly, the desired shape is determined when the tree is young. A young tree is 100% dynamic mass. It has a cortex along the entire trunk. The framework can be a single stem or a great variety of shapes. Once the framework is established, all sprouts are cut back to the framework every year. In some cases where flowers are wanted, a few sprouts with flower buds are left on the framework. The all important feature of this practice is to establish the framework when the tree is young, and to cut back to the framework every year, or every other year on selected branches bearing flowers. Many types of tree mutilation have been called pollarding. Topping large trees is not pollarding, it is a crime against nature." - Modern Arboriculture p. 116

 

[squisher]

I'm sure I'll get flamed bigtime for this but no disrespect is meant.

There is a point where research and science run smack dab into reality. Some people are ignorant and not interested in learning. I do my part by presenting the argument of what is correct, but I'm certainly not about to lose any sleep if some moron then decides that they want their tree mutilated. Sorry but if topping is a crime against nature, y'all shoulda seen what I did logging.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

That looks really cool Brett.

 

[Old Monkey]

My daughter is five, she saw the "Topping Trees Is Bad" sticker that came in one of my Sherrill's orders and fixated on it. She has it stuck facing outward on her bedroom window. She sees no shades of grey in the matter because she is five. To her coppicing, pollarding or shaping a fruit tree would all count as topping and she'd be against it. I am surprised when adults have the same inflexibility of thought. I discourage my customers from topping because it will not give them the safety that they think they want and not because it is as Shigo says, "a crime against nature." I like trees but am not a mad monk kneeling at the alter of the latest views in arboriculture.


This thread kind of reminds me of one from a few Tree Houses ago. That one sure was lively.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It was Ekkkafied.

 

[Blinky]

Mr. Brett,
I want to see pics of that Crape when it's in full bloom. I've tried to explain to some people that Crapes can be pollarded beautifully but they keep thinking crape murder. It's hard to explain the difference.

I usually like natural Crapes better but a well done pollard looks amazing in the summer... closest thing there is to a Truffula Tree.

 

[stig]

I would very much like to see it in bloom, too.

 

[SkwerI]

All the crepe myrtles around here get cut back every year. All the landscape companies do it on all the commercial properties, and we even have them planted in road medians. Some get pollarded better than others. Some are even done properly.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I hate seeing that.

 

[vl2007]

Proper pollarding will leave a pollard head at the tip. Every year sprouts should be pruned at that head. Very time consumming. Crape-myrtles are among the suitable plants for pollarding, (to produce flowering). I've never used the techq.

 

[Frans]

Proper pollarding will leave a pollard head at the tip.

Good to leave at least one sucker on each head, cut to around 6-12 inches long.

 

[treesmith]

Hypothetical situation:

Customer's age:65
Number of fairly tall water oaks within 30 feet of customer's home:4
Height of said trees:60-70 feet
Length of time to remove said trees:5 days
Number of years before newly planted replacement trees offered shade:15-20 years
Age of customer at that time:80-85

If trees were topped instead, shade would be available almost immediately. Blow-down risk reduced considerably. IF tree dies, which is not likely, it can still be removed (much easier now, due to reduced size), and a replacement planted. I consider this a viable option, when the customer is concerned that the tree is 2-3 times as tall as it is distanced from the house. I am aware of weakened attachment points of secondary growth. But when faced with the choice of a 40-foot leader weighing more than a ton falling on the home, versus a couple of secondary growth limbs weighing less than a hundred pounds and only ten feet long blowing out of the tree, well, decide for yourself. I don't like topping trees, but often the customer insists, and if I can't sway them, I'll accomodate them. (Minus gaffs, of course.)

When a lawn care operator is asked to cut a customer's grass during very dry, hot conditions, and is asked to cut it as short as his mower will allow, does his doing so make him a "hack", because he knows that the sun will scorch the roots of the grass?

How many times has a dentist been asked (or flat-out told) to remove a tooth that he knows he could have salvaged? Is he a "hack"? I know of people who for reasons of their own, opted to have ALL their teeth pulled and got dentures. Should I call them "fools", "stupid" or "uneducated" because they chose a different route than I would have? I know one guy who has ONE tooth left in his head, and I'm thinking, man, I'd have that thing pulled! But...it's HIS tooth!!!

Many things in life are dictated by the person picking up the tab.

 

[jomoco]

Hypothetical situation:

Customer's age:65
Number of fairly tall water oaks within 30 feet of customer's home:4
Height of said trees:60-70 feet
Length of time to remove said trees:5 days
Number of years before newly planted replacement trees offered shade:15-20 years
Age of customer at that time:80-85

If trees were topped instead, shade would be available almost immediately. Blow-down risk reduced considerably. IF tree dies, which is not likely, it can still be removed (much easier now, due to reduced size), and a replacement planted. I consider this a viable option, when the customer is concerned that the tree is 2-3 times as tall as it is distanced from the house. I am aware of weakened attachment points of secondary growth. But when faced with the choice of a 40-foot leader weighing more than a ton falling on the home, versus a couple of secondary growth limbs weighing less than a hundred pounds and only ten feet long blowing out of the tree, well, decide for yourself. I don't like topping trees, but often the customer insists, and if I can't sway them, I'll accomodate them. (Minus gaffs, of course.)

When a lawn care operator is asked to cut a customer's grass during very dry, hot conditions, and is asked to cut it as short as his mower will allow, does his doing so make him a "hack", because he knows that the sun will scorch the roots of the grass?

How many times has a dentist been asked (or flat-out told) to remove a tooth that he knows he could have salvaged? Is he a "hack"? I know of people who for reasons of their own, opted to have ALL their teeth pulled and got dentures. Should I call them "fools", "stupid" or "uneducated" because they chose a different route than I would have? I know one guy who has ONE tooth left in his head, and I'm thinking, man, I'd have that thing pulled! But...it's HIS tooth!!!

Many things in life are dictated by the person picking up the tab.

Without folow up care within 3-5 years it increases the likelihood of failure for a relatively short term security gain over the course of the tree's lifespan.

Sort of turning the tree into a ticking time bomb for a short term gain in my opinion.

jomoco

 

[NeTree]

Without folow up care within 3-5 years it increases the likelihood of failure for a relatively short term security gain over the course of the tree's lifespan.

Sort of turning the tree into a ticking time bomb for a short term gain in my opinion.

jomoco

I agree.

 

[Old Monkey]

Trees get big by not falling. Why punish success?

 

[lumberjack]

American way?