What, exactly IS a 'hack' tree person?

[woodworkingboy]

What one article has to say about it:

Topping:

Common, but inappropriate;

Stem diameter and age not considered;

Practiced on any trees of any age;

Return pruning may not happen;

Causes decay in cut branches;

Creates weak attachments that may become dangerous;

Can decrease the tree life span.


Pollarding:

Rare, but appropriate technique;

Begins when tree is young;

Applied every one or two or three years;

All shoots are removed each time;

Shoots are only 1-inch diameter when removed;

Does not cause trunk decay;

Creates good structure;

Can have extended life span.

 

[stig]

I went on a little photo-safari this morning, so I have some pollard pictures to show.
This will be a long story, so I'll spread it over several posts, to make sure the pictures are shown in the right order.

Treevet, by the way, do you think we could maybe continue this discussion without any of those condescending remarks, which really adds nothing to the topic , but irritates the recipient.

" Do you guys wear spikes when topping/pollarding"

"Does provide some job security, tho I suppose"



That said, let me give an outline of the historical reasons behind pollarding/coppicing trees.
Coppicing is the same as pollarding, just done right above ground level.

Back before iron became common and cheap enough to make scythes a tool for everybody, keeping livestock from starving over the winters were a major problem. Old diaries and journals from Scandinavia tell about carrying the cow out to graze on the first day of spring. Meaning, the cow was too weak from hunger to walk.
Winterfeed was mainly branches, cut with the leaves still on them, and dried.
That is where the whole thing started, and this is some 1500 years back.
When scythes became common and hay could be cut, the tecnique was used to provide a steady supply of small size wood for fencing, firewood and the making of household items.
We have places in the forests here where villages where destroyed by the blach death and never rebuildt, there one can still see remnants of coppiced hazel.
As late as the first half of last century most of the small country roads were lined by pollarded poplars and willows, they were pollarded at longer intervals, making it possible to harvest wood as thick as a mans thigh.
They become hollw over time and if not pollarded regularly, break down from the weight of the branches.

Here is one we did last summer:

 

[Treevet]

Do you mean do all you guys in the whole of Europe wear spikes when topping/pollarding? Or world wide?

Sigh, what a stupid question, same old, same old.

Say, do you guys in London, England drive cars?

I guess we have now decided to call all topping pollarding? That's cute, sounds much nicer. Internodal cuts with no consideration for infection. The article mentions nothing of concerns about infection and the consequences of infection. Seems to me the beam would be compromised, and the large cuts when infected, would roll woundwood into rams horns causing cracks in the cut area. Mattheck is gonna be the structural guy in the art. Why no mention of infection? Small trees or prolific woundwood growers would be a better subject of course.

This is why the question of wearing spikes, Einstein, gotta look at all repercussions don't you? If you have no prob. wounding a healthy tree to top the shit out of it with no reason other that aesthetics (I can see some other reasons) then why would you bother not wearing spikes.

Not from London, England, can't answer that question Einstein.

 

[Treevet]

I gotta go bid a job, be back in a hour. Luvyall

 

[stig]

Today pollarding is done for aesthetic reasons and to limit the size of trees in urban areas.
Just like you mow the lawn and clip the hedges to keep them from overtaking the world.
To say that pollarding has to be started when the tree is small, is not right.
Since pollarded trees do not gain height after the treatment has started, they need to have the height one wants, before beginning to top them.

Here are an example from an avenue of 250 years old Linden trees.
These trees have been kept in check, by pollarding and apparently it hasn't make them die younger than untreated trees. 250 years are about max age for Linden here, and these are still doing fine.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I wonder why those trees were treated like that. Where's the target?

 

[stig]

Finally some pictures of what we call "candelabrum" Linden.

Again, pollarding was not started untill the trees were at their present height, which as you can see is about 60-70 feet.
These trees are about 200 years old.

"Candelabrum" Linden are pruned towards the Candelabrum shape and then just pollarded regularly.

If this is hack work, then I'm proud to call myself a hack!

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'm glad we don't do that over here...much.

 

[Mr. Sir]

Today pollarding is done for aesthetic reasons and to limit the size of trees in urban areas.
Just like you mow the lawn and clip the hedges to keep them from overtaking the world.
To say that pollarding has to be started when the tree is small, is not right.
Since pollarded trees do not gain height after the treatment has started, they need to have the height one wants, before beginning to top them.

Here are an example from an avenue of 250 years old Linden trees.
These trees have been kept in check, by pollarding and apparently it hasn't make them die younger than untreated trees. 250 years are about max age for Linden here, and these are still doing fine.

Looking closely at those lindens along the avenue, I see a lot of callous growth at about the 3 meter height. Is it possible those trees were pollarded at that height originally and then perhaps forgotten, or maybe someone decided they should be taller?

 

[stig]

I wonder why those trees were treated like that. Where's the target?

The target is to limit their size. if you look at the picture, there are no branches on the side towards the road to hit passing wehicles. in order for the trees not to reach too far out to the sides they are cut back, and since we have to cut them back, we might as well pollard them.
Also keeping the tops reduced make them less susceptible to blowdowns.

My dictionary refers to a road lined by trees on both sides as an avenue.
Are there no better words for that?

 

[Mr. Sir]

I'm glad we don't do that over here...much.

And that is why it looks odd to us.

Look at all of the hedges around our homes. That is certainly not a natural growth pattern for bushes, but we're so accustomed to it that we hardly notice.

 

[stig]

Looking closely at those lindens along the avenue, I see a lot of callous growth at about the 3 meter height. Is it possible those trees were pollarded at that height originally and then perhaps forgotten, or maybe someone decided they should be taller?

You are right, they were originally done much lower. The ones by the church, too.
Back before bucket trucks only the very rich could afford to pollard that high, since it had to be done from ladders.

Then later the trees were allowed to add another section, because today we can stand in comfort and prune them.
100 years ago vehicles weren't tall enough to be bothered by lower branches, today with double decker buses and huge chiptrucks the ceiling over roads have to be higher.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I was under the impression that most "successful" pollarding, is initiated when the tree is at a young age.

As regarding disease, a small quotation:

"The pollarding process does not severely circumvent the natural protective mechanism that protects the tree from disease and insects. Topping, on the other hand, totally defeats the protective mechanism of the tree. During the dormant season, you can see that all the new growth on a pollarded tree is small (one-to-two years old cuts) and originates from the same area of the branches. Every one-to-two years, the sprouts are cut back to the same area of the branch stump where they originated. This results in the knobby ends to the major branches from which new sprouts grow every year. We’d call our trees in Holland like “Knob Willows”!

 

[stig]

Hedges made by braiding willow or topiary cut bushes are not natural either, but we still do them.
The topiary picture is american by the way

 

[High Scale]

I guess we have now decided to call all topping pollarding? That's cute, sounds much nicer. Internodal cuts with no consideration for infection. The article mentions nothing of concerns about infection and the consequences of infection. Seems to me the beam would be compromised, and the large cuts when infected, would roll woundwood into rams horns causing cracks in the cut area. Mattheck is gonna be the structural guy in the art. Why no mention of infection? Small trees or prolific woundwood growers would be a better subject of course.

This is why the question of wearing spikes, Einstein, gotta look at all repercussions don't you? If you have no prob. wounding a healthy tree to top the shit out of it with no reason other that aesthetics (I can see some other reasons) then why would you bother not wearing spikes.

Not from London, England, can't answer that question Einstein.

See, that's assumption right there, presuming that I haven't a problem topping the shit out of a tree!, as you put it.

No, in fact your right, I don't give a shit.



Look, I replied without feeling the need to call you a name.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Great Photos Stig.

Pollarding and topping are two different things. But both essentially 'damage the tree to the same extent, so its hard to describe topping as being harmful.

Here's a very bad example of topping -

 

[Al Smith]

It's a geographical situation that most people out of the praticular area just don't understand .

I would make a guess that silver or as we call soft maples are the trimmers or arborists, if you prefer , "bread and butter " trees . These things get clipped pretty badly at times but most recover .It's just something that gets done in this area .

Just because some know it all in Australia that slays palm trees doesn't agree with it is not going to stop the process .

Fact is I have growing ,as I type a sugar maple growing in the power line right of way .If I don't get on it in a couple of years the electric company will .They prune them at ground level .

 

[sotc]

I beleive that pollarding is pruning all limbs that are not wanted off before they are 1" in diameter, no matter the height of the tree

 

[Treevet]

My dictionary refers to a road lined by trees on both sides as an avenue.
Are there no better words for that?

I have in my mind a word, ailee. Can't find it in a book or wikipedia so it may also be wrong. Or it may be French for Avenue or row of trees?

 

[Treevet]

Great Photos Stig.

Pollarding and topping are two different things. But both essentially 'damage the tree to the same extent, so its hard to describe topping as being harmful.

Here's a very bad example of topping -

Please tell me what is the difference. The article I read describes internodal cuts in pollarding

Topping (ISA dictionary) inappropriate pruning technique to reduce tree size. Cutting back a tree to a predetermined crown limit, often at internodes.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Pollarding generally assumes starting when the tree is young, which helps in preventing decay, and then annual maintenance. That is a difference, I believe. Selecting which species respond well to pollarding, is another difference. Topping requires considerably less specificity.

 

[Frans]

Treevet, by the way, do you think we could maybe continue this discussion without any of those condescending remarks, which really adds nothing to the topic , but irritates the recipient.

I'll second that motion.


Great discussion. Over the years I have not heard such an in-depth discussion of the pollarding topic.
Thanks

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'll third that.

 

[Treevet]

Where is that quote from and what is it in relation to?

 

[Old Monkey]

Pollarding doesn't bother me. Those 200 year old lindens are cool. I am doubtful they would have lasted that long without being pollarded.