flushcut
TreeHouser
I bet that made a wonderful crunch when it hit.
The " No wimpy euro short bar feller, me!" hazard tree.
- Thread starter stig
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pete mctree
Treehouser
Ed L
Treehouser
Excellent job Stig!
Ed
Ed
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Yeah 10 minutes to flop it and a day and half cleaning up the mess ----been there .The kind you dread to hear when you know your gonna have to tidy & rake the mess
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
I love those stories on real technical jobs.
But I don't understand one thing : while cutting the face with the 660, why did you left the 880 idling in the cut behind the hinge, if there was a high risk that the tree could settle down?
The 60" bar would be jammed the same way as with the usual method, no ?
But I don't understand one thing : while cutting the face with the 660, why did you left the 880 idling in the cut behind the hinge, if there was a high risk that the tree could settle down?
The 60" bar would be jammed the same way as with the usual method, no ?
Porkbrick
TreeHouser
that clears up my earlier question. i knew you bored in and then made the face, i just couldnt picture how that didnt move the pinch potential from the back bore cut to the face cut. now i get it. thanks.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
We had another opportunity to use that cut yesterday at Ledreborg castle.
Double ash, totally hollow and one leader was leaning BAD.
I let Martin, the apprentice, try his skills at it. That really made his day, he did the cutest victory dance when it was on the ground
These pictures are by me, so if I can only get them to upload in order, they should be quite informative.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #34
Since we are poor Euro fallers without springboards, he had to cut steps into the side of the tree in order to get above the hollow part.
Martin did real well on that tree, for a guy who is only ½ way through his first logging season..
I'm wondering, have any of you come across that method before?
I thought it out about 10 years ago, when I had to fell a bunch of core rotten, extremely leaning hybrid aspen populus tremulusxtremoloides
They are very soft, so fibers compress easily, and because of the core rot, I couldn't really use a Coos bay or golden triangle cut.
So I came up with this.
But since there are many smarter fallers out there than me, I thought that somebody else had probably come up with it before?
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Burnham
Woods walker
I never have done so, nor seen it done Stig. But I can recall a large Doug fir that I felled years ago that gave me a real hard time, where that cut would have been the ticket...if I'd been astute enough to realize how the condition of the butt was going to cause grief.
There was some heartrot that became evident in taking out the face cut, but I didn't perceive it to be all that bad...there appeared to be 10 inches or so of good sound wood all around the outer rim of this 40 inch stem.
The back cut only progressed about half way to the back of the hinge and the tree sat down on the bar, like right now...it didn't set back, I had two wedges in the back cut, though not hammered real hard yet...the whole back cut kerf just closed down in a vertical movement.
It took serious wedging with my steel razor wedge, two mags, and the two plastics already in there to lift that mother enough to get the bar to slide clear. Then I bored in again in the same kerf back near the wedges and repeatedly reamed the back cut until I got it forward to the proper hinge width.
I was a worn out puppy by the time I finished driving that one over to the lay.
I was less experienced then, but I'm not so sure I'd be much better at reading the condition of that stem today...maybe, I hope so, but it sure was odd to me then that the rind still seemed sound when I carefully examined it after the fell. You could see a clear and distinct imprint of every tooth, tie strap, and rivet head, both top and bottom of the bar, on both the stump and the butt.
Those are darn nice pictures, Stig. Looks like you got another good apprentice on your hands.
There was some heartrot that became evident in taking out the face cut, but I didn't perceive it to be all that bad...there appeared to be 10 inches or so of good sound wood all around the outer rim of this 40 inch stem.
The back cut only progressed about half way to the back of the hinge and the tree sat down on the bar, like right now...it didn't set back, I had two wedges in the back cut, though not hammered real hard yet...the whole back cut kerf just closed down in a vertical movement.
It took serious wedging with my steel razor wedge, two mags, and the two plastics already in there to lift that mother enough to get the bar to slide clear. Then I bored in again in the same kerf back near the wedges and repeatedly reamed the back cut until I got it forward to the proper hinge width.
I was a worn out puppy by the time I finished driving that one over to the lay.
I was less experienced then, but I'm not so sure I'd be much better at reading the condition of that stem today...maybe, I hope so, but it sure was odd to me then that the rind still seemed sound when I carefully examined it after the fell. You could see a clear and distinct imprint of every tooth, tie strap, and rivet head, both top and bottom of the bar, on both the stump and the butt.
Those are darn nice pictures, Stig. Looks like you got another good apprentice on your hands
.- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
I think he has it in him to become a really good faller.
He doesn't know this , but we are going to offer him a permanent job, once he finishes his education.
He is fun to be with, a hard worker, non smoker ( or he would not have been with us!) in good shape ( great shape, actually) and shows up sharply on time every day wearing clean work clothes. Plus he can already put trees where he wants them to go.
What more could one ask for?
About a year before I joined the House, we had a scenario like the one you describe.
Ledreborg castle park, again.
The Danish Hydrangea growers assosiation ( yes, there is such a thing
) Had planted a bed of 400 different hydrangeas.
Then, and only then, does the asshole forester in charge of the place back then ( he is history now, fortunately!) realize that two ash trees each about 250 years old right next to the hydrangeas, are about to collapse.
Enters yours truly.
There was a huge maple right behind the ash trees, so we put the TIP in that. Then Richard went up and proceeded to cut the top out of the first ash.
When he was 1/3 into the back cut, the whole top settled down on the saw.
He had to rappel out and then we shot a line into the top and broke it out with a 5 ton tirfor winch, narrowly missing the hydrangeas.
No risk of human life, but in that place, the hydrangeas were almost as sacred
He doesn't know this , but we are going to offer him a permanent job, once he finishes his education.
He is fun to be with, a hard worker, non smoker ( or he would not have been with us!) in good shape ( great shape, actually) and shows up sharply on time every day wearing clean work clothes. Plus he can already put trees where he wants them to go.
What more could one ask for?
About a year before I joined the House, we had a scenario like the one you describe.
Ledreborg castle park, again.
The Danish Hydrangea growers assosiation ( yes, there is such a thing
) Had planted a bed of 400 different hydrangeas.Then, and only then, does the asshole forester in charge of the place back then ( he is history now, fortunately!) realize that two ash trees each about 250 years old right next to the hydrangeas, are about to collapse.
Enters yours truly.
There was a huge maple right behind the ash trees, so we put the TIP in that. Then Richard went up and proceeded to cut the top out of the first ash.
When he was 1/3 into the back cut, the whole top settled down on the saw.
He had to rappel out and then we shot a line into the top and broke it out with a 5 ton tirfor winch, narrowly missing the hydrangeas.
No risk of human life, but in that place, the hydrangeas were almost as sacred
Burnham
Woods walker
How'd the saw fare?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #38
He tied it off before coming down.
Good thing BTW, it was a t200, those things are getting hard to find
Truly a treeguy. Not " good thing you saved the poor hydrangeas", but "how did the saw fare?".
Gotta love it
Good thing BTW, it was a t200, those things are getting hard to find
Truly a treeguy. Not " good thing you saved the poor hydrangeas", but "how did the saw fare?".
Gotta love it
Burnham
Woods walker
Gotta keep our priorities properly assigned, eh?
Reddog
TreeHouser
Nice pictures Stig. Don't remember ever trying one that way myself. I will store it away just in case it's needed in the future.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Got to love a Tirfor winch, a great tool when the chips are down. Safety factor rated to over five tons, it must be rather large diameter wire for that winch, and heavy as well.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #42
It is a complete bitch to roll up after use.
Also the winch itself is very heavy, so we mostly use the little 1 ton model and only bring out the big one for those special occasions.
For pulling trees over it is much easier to set the line high enough in the tree that one can use less power and use a pulley to get 2 to 1 on the one tonner.
Also the winch itself is very heavy, so we mostly use the little 1 ton model and only bring out the big one for those special occasions.
For pulling trees over it is much easier to set the line high enough in the tree that one can use less power and use a pulley to get 2 to 1 on the one tonner.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
One ton would be a good size to have. I mostly see the three-quarter and 1.6 ton in use in these parts. My experience is mostly with the three-quarter, and since it only uses 9mm wire, and the winch quite light itself, easy to haul around. It doesn't seem like the Tirfors have ever found much use in the states amongst tree workers, and most guys prefer rope over cable, based on what has been discussed here. It probably is wider accepted for use in construction work. For some reason, wire rope has a very large safety factor for recommended use, something like one-fifth the minimum tested breaking strength. Take a wire with ten tons breaking strength, and it is regarded as only safe up to two tons if you follow the rules. Lots of caution room there. Some folks push it quite a bit over the recommended, however. Our crane guy laughs when I bring up wire safety specs.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #44
Are they using the real Tirfor in your part of the world, or the Japanese Eureka knock off?
My 5 tonner is a Tirfor, the 1 tonner is a Swiss Habecker knock off.
When I worked in Switzerland, the locals were telling me that Habecker is the best winch ever made.
Took me about 20 years before I figured out why.
It is made in the town I lived and worked just outside.
Local pride!
My 5 tonner is a Tirfor, the 1 tonner is a Swiss Habecker knock off.
When I worked in Switzerland, the locals were telling me that Habecker is the best winch ever made.
Took me about 20 years before I figured out why.
It is made in the town I lived and worked just outside.
Local pride!
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
If you were refering to a plunge cut and back strap method ,I have used that but very seldom .You gotta kind of watch that plunge because it can get away from you or at least it does for me .
Reddog
TreeHouser
I can see the advantages of the Tirfor over what we use here. http://www.wyeth-scott.com/specs.asp
But the availability and price make up for the line drum tangle issues. Some day I may try dynnema on it and see how that works.
But the availability and price make up for the line drum tangle issues. Some day I may try dynnema on it and see how that works.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #47
I'm not, Al.
Read it again.
This is a different animal.
You plunge cut the middle out of the tree first, THEN you cut your face, thus avoiding getting your saw pinched when cutting your hinge thin enough to avoid a barberchair.
For use on hollow or core rotten heavy leaners of species that barberchair easily.
I'm really interested in hearing from others, who have used this cut.
It would be kinda cool if I invented it
Jerry, what do you have to say?
HolmenTree
Banned
Speaking of winchs I have a 20 ton Tree Farmer skidder winch in perfect condition I bought over 10 years ago. I paid $200 for it and still have never used it. Its got a 5/8" mainline and weighs about a half a ton. I originally had plans to mount it under my old 3 ton truck's dump box, but have since sold the truck so change of plan was to mount it on its own trailer.
Still have plans for it though............... I've seen some guys mount them on barges for out on the water use.
Still have plans for it though............... I've seen some guys mount them on barges for out on the water use.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
It must be that language barrier thing again .What would make the difference if you cut the face first then the plunge .Other than that's not the way you did it ?
Why would one method or another pinch the bar in the first place ?
What makes the difference because the tree is still held in place by the hinge and back strap .It shouldn't make any difference unless the laws of physics are different between the US and Norway ,er I mean Denmark .
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Well, Stig, I really can't say I've used that method before. Your explanation makes good sense.
But in all truth over the years I've went about some rather odd and different ways of cutting trees and spars to minimize wood pull, root pull, splitting and barber chairing. So much of this work hinges on improvisation.
We all come up against some doozies at times.
The "bender" cut, I learned from seeing trees in the wild, that through losing their support wood by fire or rot they just bent over and stayed attached to the stem. I've reamed, whittled and scarfed out the support wood of some bad trees to the same effect.
It works too. But you really have to be quick on the draw or you risk losing your saw. Such are bad trees to reckon with.
But in all truth over the years I've went about some rather odd and different ways of cutting trees and spars to minimize wood pull, root pull, splitting and barber chairing. So much of this work hinges on improvisation.
We all come up against some doozies at times.
The "bender" cut, I learned from seeing trees in the wild, that through losing their support wood by fire or rot they just bent over and stayed attached to the stem. I've reamed, whittled and scarfed out the support wood of some bad trees to the same effect.
It works too. But you really have to be quick on the draw or you risk losing your saw. Such are bad trees to reckon with.
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