Tell me what I don't know about limbing a dead tree.

[murphy4trees]

Guys, thanks for the comments, but I'm a little confused by some of them.

You're not the only one...the entire industry has been confused by this three cut method for the nearly 40 years I've been making sawdust.

This one small example of how ignorant industry leaders are. For example, the leaders that write the ansi pruning standards are. They show the 3 cut method, that has a note to check the appendix. Sure enough, go look at the appendix and there is a note saying this cut is only to be used on small limbs. (maybe 2-3" as I recall) . They use an entire page of the appendix to write this one sentence which would do much better to be printed on the same page, where the readers might have a better opportunity to read it.

I wrote them a suggestion to this effect in a comment period many years ago. They wrote back saying that they would accept the suggestion and move the warning from the appendix to the same page as the diagram. BUT DID THEY??? NO, THEY DIDN'T. The only question is are they simply that ignorant and incompetent, or are they acting purposely to keep the industry dumb?

This three cut method has been known to cause saw snatch since the 80's, but still, the ignorance is widespread. That tells you all you need to know about the institutions that are responsible for education.

ps.. the guys from this old house know nothing about tree work. There was a video of Bob Villa showing a falling cut, that made us laugh.

 

[Tree09]

Someone please find that again, it was horrible!!!

 

[murphy4trees]

here's the worst educational video on tree falling ever!

 

[Tree09]

that's it! Ignorance is bliss, and he is quite blissful as the tree takes lucky bounces off other trees and he just stands there like he's looking at Niagara Falls or something 🤣

 

[SeanKroll]

@TallTreeClimber , if you notice, he's taking small limbs with a handsaw. It's like comparing apples to sting rays, completely different things going on that aren't related. On pruning, i still do the top cut closer to the trunk slightly so my saw isn't caught in the torn fibers, which would suck because i use a lanyard for my saw and i don't want it or me broken. I do however add a small undercut closer yet to stop any tearing.

Are you using a breakaway, or have a weak connector?

 

[Tree09]

A dog snap, so it should break. I don't ever want to find out tho!!!

 

[Mellow]

To answer another OP question. NO, the tree hasn't been dead too long as oak is usually quite secure to climb for 2 years + after death, even when struck by lightning.

I have to respectfully disagree with you Daniel. Hypoxylin canker will weaken the wood VERY quickly. Limbs of 5" diameter or more will spontaneously fail within a few months after the tree dies.

 

[Tree09]

I really need to learn up on my fungi, canker, etc. That's the next step of my learning i think.

 

[lxskllr]

What's happening in that video?! It looks like he awkwardly makes three F'd up cuts, and the tree falls sideways?!

 

[Tree09]

Pretty much hahahahahaha

 

[Mellow]

Gotta love the angled back cut!

 

[murphy4trees]

I have to respectfully disagree with you Daniel. Hypoxylin canker will weaken the wood VERY quickly. Limbs of 5" diameter or more will spontaneously fail within a few months after the tree dies.

Thanks for pointing that out. There may be other diseases that affect the strength of oak even more so. Not around here though. I've never seen big limbs fail that quickly with hypoxylin. There maybe limbs that die before the tree that have structural issues. One good way to judge the safety of climbing a dead oak is how much of the small twigs are left on the tree. As always in tree work, proceed with caution.

This one had been dead at least 5 years:

 

[TallTreeClimber]

So I consulted my digital copy of the fundamentals of general tree work and starting on page 173 he describes the improved jump cut for large limbs. I should have studied this more before I did that job.

This is what you've been describing Tree09, correct? The jump cut or the improved jump cut.

Now I feel like a big dummy for not understanding the difference between pruning small limbs and dissecting big trees.

 

[TallTreeClimber]

here's the worst educational video on tree falling ever!

That didn't even fall in the direction of the notch. No hard hat either. What a dope.

 

[lxskllr]

I've been thinking about that video since I got up this morning. It almost seems like an intentional troll. How can someone do something so poorly, and then half ass teach it to other people? It's especially bad cause his name presumably carries some weight as a knowledgeable tool worker. Probably a good thing he just blasted through the video. That way people can't examine what he did and replicate it.

 

[Tree09]

Yeah, that requires boring in, so personally i don't use it. I either climb out farther (ideal), notch and bore, or coos bay. I really think he's just an actor, sho that's what he was taught/ scripted to do.

 

[SeanKroll]

A dog snap, so it should break. I don't ever want to find out tho!!!

I you can hang on it, it's too strong.

 

[Tree09]

Damnit. I'm probably gonna have to splice up a new one then, they are really good dog snaps lol. It's 3 stand, complete with a bungee cord in the middle

 

[Bermy]

Just think about the weight involved in that long close to horizontal limb...
Even if you were planning on 'pruning' that long heavy branch back to the trunk you would NOT do it the way you did. That would be the last set of cuts AFTER removing a hell of a lot of the end of the limb first.
Once excessive weight is involved it changes your available choices of cuts to achieve the outcome.

If you could absolutely not get further out on the branch to take pieces off the end, then you are left with a serious situation that requires a series of cuts designed to deal with and handle the huge weight and resultant forces.
Wedge, bore, release (making sure there is enough room to get a bore cut in without pinching) or,
Multiple compression cuts, staggered top cuts to spread the reaction forces over a wider distance, or
Coos bay (never been able to do this one well

The simple one compression cut followed by one top cut was never going to result in anything else than what happened.

 

[lxskllr]

Damnit. I'm probably gonna have to splice up a new one then, they are really good dog snaps lol. It's 3 stand, complete with a bungee cord in the middle

You could use a paracord link as a breakaway. My whole lanyard is paracord, but I think I'm gonna change it to something bigger with paracord attachments. I have small gauge paracord daisychained for a better grip. It hasn't given me problems yet, but the loops could cause snagging on branches. I think a heavier rope would feel nicer anyway. I'll probably use some of that polypro I got in my bag of rope ends.

 

[Tree09]

Mine is the prime example of overkill and attempting new splicing stuff all in one, I'll throw a picture up sometime. I guess i could just add a small loop of string line to my harness and just clip into that....

 

[DMc]

I have spent a lifetime of climbing and never once wished for a breakaway lanyard. Generally speaking, if that is your safety plan, you should be giving the situation more thought.

Sorry, went back and see y'all were talking saw lanyard, my bad.

 

[SeanKroll]

Have you ever hung your rope in one tree, and worked in another that you were not willing to tie into, perhaps a leg catching a limb, or holding on with one hand while cutting with another? Maybe storm work, or a really, nasty dead thing?

 

[murphy4trees]

Just think about the weight involved in that long close to horizontal limb...
Even if you were planning on 'pruning' that long heavy branch back to the trunk you would NOT do it the way you did. That would be the last set of cuts AFTER removing a hell of a lot of the end of the limb first.
Once excessive weight is involved it changes your available choices of cuts to achieve the outcome.

If you could absolutely not get further out on the branch to take pieces off the end, then you are left with a serious situation that requires a series of cuts designed to deal with and handle the huge weight and resultant forces.
Wedge, bore, release (making sure there is enough room to get a bore cut in without pinching) or,
Multiple compression cuts, staggered top cuts to spread the reaction forces over a wider distance, or
Coos bay (never been able to do this one well

The simple one compression cut followed by one top cut was never going to result in anything else than what happened.

It doesn't have to be that complicated though. If the limb is horizontal, you can just hit it with a top cut and let is explode, as long as your line or lanyard isn't below the cut. The limb will fracture and scare you for a minute until you get used to it, but it can't hurt you. It's only if the limb has some rise to it, that it could lift up, as per a barber chair, and then get high enough above you to do some damage

 

[murphy4trees]

I have spent a lifetime of climbing and never once wished for a breakaway lanyard. Generally speaking, if that is your safety plan, you should be giving the situation more thought.

Sorry, went back and see y'all were talking saw lanyard, my bad.

Ya, there is usually another option. but on this one, we may need to have a breakaway lanyard. She's still trying to find a crane company that will do the tree, but so far 9 companies have walked away from this one: