Rope Bag Question

MasterBlaster said:
I'll take that bet! :evil:
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What, you don't think it can be done? :? Piece-o-cake, you just shove the rope in the bag as fast as you can, hand over hand. The trick is feeding it over your shoulder... or through a biner I guess, haven't tried that one yet. Seriously, 150' - less than a minute


My groundies like to help by picking up and coiling my climbline for me, but they always make a mess of it that tangles no matter what they do. I always say, "Thank you." But really don't mean it. They mean well, but through all the years they have never gotten it right.
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I hate it when people coil my ropes. I do the same thing, thank them and not really mean it.

I always coiled when climbing rock but for trees? Bags are da shit. Easy in, easy out.
 
I have to admit, I'm a bit skeptical MB - I don't think ANYBODY can coil a rope as fast as it could be flaked into a bag. I've raced 5 or 6 other guys who didn't believe me, and it wasn't even close. The problem is that with coiling, once you're done making the coils you have to bind them together with a series of wrap and then some kind of hitch. None of that happens when flaking into a bag.

I frequently climb with my rope in a bag dangling just below my feet. It's nice when I'm working alone because no branches can land on my rope and trap me. I also climb with bagged rope when I'm setting a pull line on a tree that's coming down. Rather than climb with just one end and then have to pull up and coil the entire thing before throwing it down, I just climb with the bag, tie one end to the tree, and then toss the bag to the ground. Even a butterfly coil will sometimes get tangled when thrown, but never with a bag.
 
I generally preset a rope in every tree. And if it's a wreck job, fir, pine, redwood, I'll coil the rope up and tuck it away as I ascend and cut limbs. No tangles on the ground and it never gets caught in the mix when the groundies step in to pull brush to the chipper.

I use a snap-on sling to hold the coils and carry on the side of the belt. I never really feel the weight of the coils since it's all hanging in the line from the get go. Just before topping the tree I will toss the coils out in the clear just to be ready for a speedy exit out of the tree.
 
gf beranek said:
I generally preset a rope in every tree. And if it's a wreck job, fir, pine, redwood, I'll coil the rope up and tuck it away as I ascend and cut limbs. No tangles on the ground and it never gets caught in the mix when the groundies step in to pull brush to the chipper.

me 2 but I keep like 10 or 12 feet of the end out so I can move or chunk wood. I have 3 rope bags some times I coil but I like the bags better. But we do not have a lot of rroom in the boxs for a bunch of bags.
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I agree on others coiling my ropes...it makes me nuts...they'll often make these twisted, figure 8'd coils and then lay it down for me to finish off. I just backfeed it and recoil. Unless it's my father...then I take it home where he doesn't see me undo his handiwork.

I only coil rigging ropes...I bag all my climbing ropes...and have my 9'16 Stable braid in a milk crate. The other rigging ropes get coiled.
 
rumination said:
Another rope bag flaking tip: if you still have your saddle on just slip the rope into a carabiner on the front, bend over slightly and hand over hand the rope into the bag. I find this way is faster and easier than the over the shoulder technique.

I do a similar thing with my throwline but a bit different. I always keep a small keychain biner clipped to my F-cube. If I have a lot of throwline to flake back in I'll clip the keychain biner to the collar of my shirt and run the throwline through that. Stand over the F-cube and hand over hand the throwline straight in, EZ PZ.
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I do almost exactly the same thing Leon, with one difference. FS protocol includes always wearing a chest harness, to facilitate upper body support should aerial rescue be required. I run the rope or throwline through the biner in the middle of my chest and lean over the bag and feed it in hand over hand. It's very fast...with the mount point up a little higher like that you can feed full arm-length strokes into the bag or cube.

I've been showing both students and experienced climbers this technique for years, and most adopt it immediately as their SOP.

Coiling IS slower, Butch...I've done the race thing like Bounce describes too, it wasn't even close. My lines are almost all 200 feet or more...coiling gets really awkward and slow when there is too much rope to hold easily in one hand.

Now, about that tautline hitch...
:D
 
You know those indian fakirs, that play a melody on a flute to get a rope to rise out of a bag, then they climb up the rope and disappear.
Now the trick for us would be to get hold of one of those flutes and learn to play the tune backwards!
 
stig said:
You know those indian fakirs, that play a melody on a flute to get a rope to rise out of a bag, then they climb up the rope and disappear.
Now the trick for us would be to get hold of one of those flutes and learn to play the tune backwards!
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Here ya go Stig,
 

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When I first got my bags from Hobby Climber I flaked like a coiler: carefully made sure to add that 1/4 to 1/2 twist so the rope would lay in nice tight little round coils in the bag. Problem was if I used a bagged rope off the ball or out of the tree and wore the bag on my belt and let it run out as I descended it would hockle* due to that twist not being able to work itself out.

* hockle: is that a valid term? We always used it to mean where the rope would twist into tight small knot-like coils that would jam at your friction knot; especially a pain in the days of three strand hemp ropes.

A good coil job needs that 1/4 to 1/2 turn each coil to counteract the twist inherent in coiling a line, thus ensuring it lays flat. (It's that same twist you see in an electrical extension cord that someone wraps around their forearm instead of coiling like a tree rope).

Once I started flaking pell-mell into the bags without a care as to what it looked like, the ropes play out nicely no matter what I am doing. It helps tossing the line over a low branch or over your shoulder to keep good tension on the line when you flake the rope back into a bag. I just need another four bags... c'mon WesSpur...


And now the ground crew knows that my ropes are as flakey as I am...
 
pigwot said:
* hockle: is that a valid term? We always used it to mean where the rope would twist into tight small knot-like coils that would jam at your friction knot; especially a pain in the days of three strand hemp ropes.
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* hockle ... aka : 'assholes'

Great post, pigwot.
 
Burnham said:
FS protocol includes always wearing a chest harness, to facilitate upper body support should aerial rescue be required. I run the rope or throwline through the biner in the middle of my chest and lean over the bag and feed it in hand over hand. It's very fast...with the mount point up a little higher like that you can feed full arm-length strokes into the bag or cube.

Now, about that tautline hitch...
:D
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You posted this info sometime last year, too, Burnham. I've used it ever since. I wear a rockclimbing daisy chain bandoleer style...use it to hold biners, phone, med pack, etc. I clip a biner at chest level like you say and flake away, works great.

I used to attach the bag to my belt and flake over the shoulder or kneel down on one knee...but your way is better...thanks for the good tip.

Now, about that tautline hitch....:lol:
 
MasterBlaster said:
OK, I can take a hint. Heres a pic for you two! :)
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-- ---------------




MB,


Perhaps its just a bad picture angle but doesn't the tautline hitch have 2 wraps bellow & 2 wraps above giving a 4 wrap total?

In your pic it appears to have 2 below & 1 above with a total of 3 wraps.

Am I seeing things or is this a modified version for lighter climbers?

Just wondering is all,


HC
 
1 and 2 is classic rolling or Magnus hitch formation. Perfectly legit. Butch you know that if you reverse the top coil and have the tail exit back along the bridge entry that it will never creep or try to roll out? In the days of hemp either configuration was considered correct ...but hemp didn't try to roll out as much as synthetics. Somewhere along the morphing from rolling hitch (on a spar) to camel hitch ( on rope at sea) to the tautline (tent guys and treeclimbers) everyone standardized on the config that sucks the worst.
 
I learned 2 under, one over on manila...circa 1971 or so...we never used a stopper knot on the tail, never heard of one...never had the knot roll out either...guess the manila not being so slick prevented that. Sometimes I did use 2 under, 2 over with synthetic rope when I quit using manila.
 
Interesting Tautline!
----------



Back to topic,

In the early '80s, I took a rappel instructors course with the military. We didn't have any fancy harnesses or any high tech gear for that mater. They taught us to make/tie a "Swiss Seat" harness with a length of rope. Thats right, a rope harness with no padding, buckles, D's, etc. You learned to do it right or risk looking body parts!!!:\:

We didn't have rope bags, just sandbags to stow the rappel rope.

One guy would hold the sandbag open as another guy would fill it with rope hand over hand. No pattern or fig-8 pattern or anything line that. Just filled the bag and the rope went where it wanted to. ;)

Up on the cliff, we'd secure one end and toss the sandbag w/rope over the edge. It deployed flawlessly each & every time with no knots kinks or twists.

Talk about your K.I.S.S., it don't get any more bare-bones basic than that!
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I was at the "M.T.C.C." in Midland Michigan last summer and could not believe number of guys who coiled their climb lines ...and then stuffed them in the rope bags! What a waist of time & energy to say the least!

If they had a bag that stood upright & open (hint hint ;)), all they would have to do is simply load the bag "HAND-OVER-HAND" and save themselves from getting knots, kinks & twists the next time they deploy their rope!

I'm starting to wonder if this is the reason why some guys use milk crates & 5 gallon plastic pails to load rope into!

HC
 
Hobby Climber said:
Interesting Tautline!
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We didn't have any fancy harnesses or any high tech gear for that mater. They taught us to make/tie a "Swiss Seat" harness with a length of rope. Thats right, a rope harness with no padding, buckles, D's, etc. You learned to do it right or risk looking body parts!!!:\:
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I too was learnt this method by an old school tree guy, 'cept it was called a bowlin-on-a-bite. Ditto for the two under one ova tautline hitch, it was SOP for me untill I attended my first Arbormaster training class:evil:

oh yeah, rope bags=a must. provided one knows how to properly coil and store a rope first!
 
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