Mellow
BCMA
You're making this way more complicated than it should be.
Opinions On Tree Stability
- Thread starter lxskllr
- Start date
- Replies 38
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #27
Me? I had the plan together with your all's help, and now new variables are getting thrown in :^D
Curious about the bore. I'm assuming it's to check the wood. I was figuring on seeing that with the face cut. At that point, I'll still have time to change plan, and I don't anticipate any catastrophic problems farther into the wood, but what do I know? A bore is easy enough to do.
Curious about the bore. I'm assuming it's to check the wood. I was figuring on seeing that with the face cut. At that point, I'll still have time to change plan, and I don't anticipate any catastrophic problems farther into the wood, but what do I know? A bore is easy enough to do.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
That's it.
Studying the notch will tell you what you want to know at the notch, but nowhere else. The critical part is just elsewhere.
I like to bore (vertically) behind and before the intended hinge, parallel to the hinge, from the both sides if it's a big one. It served me well on a big horsechestnut, heavily rotten and hollowed. I ended making a very deep notch because there wasn't much wood left where I wanted my hinge. It took several bores to find a place with enough sound wood (mostly) to work with.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
If tying to other tree and lanyard to target;
plot moves (as always and all ways)like staging into a possible fight,
>>this comes this way ; i go that..
>>by keeping my options open , perhaps as limit opponent's
Doesn't seem like will need those moves, but best to have pre-loaded to trigger w/o thought
>>if only for the mental exercise and instilling habits that can save a day, if not a life.
.
i like leaving saw running for emergency quick release of lanyard in these shituations.
in one real ugly split that i thought i broke a list of ribs on;
found Silky slices thru taut 1/2" rather nicely as a backup plan; and warning too..
Mr. Miyagi says: "Best way to win fight; is no be there" >> release and exit on other line
plot moves (as always and all ways)like staging into a possible fight,
>>this comes this way ; i go that..
>>by keeping my options open , perhaps as limit opponent's
Doesn't seem like will need those moves, but best to have pre-loaded to trigger w/o thought
>>if only for the mental exercise and instilling habits that can save a day, if not a life.
.
i like leaving saw running for emergency quick release of lanyard in these shituations.
in one real ugly split that i thought i broke a list of ribs on;
found Silky slices thru taut 1/2" rather nicely as a backup plan; and warning too..
Mr. Miyagi says: "Best way to win fight; is no be there" >> release and exit on other line
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
This'll be combo "How was your day" and conclusion to this thread. Tree ended up being fine. I could have climbed it if I chose to. My taking it down otoh was less than fine. We'll start with the throwline...
Started with my old weaver line I found. Couldn't get it into the narrow crotch I was aiming for. Might have been 35' up. Figured I'd try my new dynaglide. Unpacked it wrong and spent the next hour untangling it. Boss showed up right as I finished unknotting it. I made a couple tries, then he gave it a shot. Got it tangled in a cherry I had to remove anyway. Once we got the line out, I cut down the cherry. Shut the saw off, tripped on my way out of the limbs, and cut the back of my hand on the chain. Not bad, but lots of blood. He ended up getting it close, but a little far out on the limb. I stopped him before he pulled it down, and told him I could work with that. Got the rope up, but couldn't get it around the stem; it appeared to be hung up on a nubby, and I couldn't flip it over. No problem. I'll tie a running bowline, and force it around the stem with the truck. Tied it up, but got carried away and broke my brand new treemaster; maybe 25'. Never did cinch down right, but the tree was strong. It was rocking after the hard pull, but holding strong. Got a 50' piece of promaster, tied a zeppelin bend, and ended up with this...
Here's the 3:1 I setup...
I didn't set it up long enough. Went down to cut the tree. Got my horizontal in finem but really dicked up my angle, and had a bit of a dutchman. Wood looked fine, and I fixed it up til I considered it sufficient(not perfect), and went to the backcut. Started that, looked, and replaced it a bit higher. Set a wedge, cut through til it /seemed/ right. Added a couple more wedges, but still couldn't get it over. Went up to the truck and started cranking on the maasdam. Nice and easy with a 3:1, but I ran out of pull. Ended up just driving and pulling it over...
That was the bad, and here's the ugly...
I considered glossing over my terrible fell, and not posting the stump, but honesty's the best policy, eh? Hinge is too thick on one side, too thin on the other, and it's all out of level. You can see the dutchman on the far side. Here's the saw I cut it with...
Rain started, and I packed up before bucking everything up.
Notes:
1: I need to settle down and pay attention. I was pissed after screwing around with the throwline, and it blew my concentration. Do it right or don't do it at all.
2: I need to position myself better for the cuts. The bad anglecut was caused by not squaring off with the lay, and not using the sight for that part. That led to fumbling with a long bar that I need to get better familiarity with.
3: I saw my 3:1 was too short when I made it. It should have been fixed then. See 1
4: The zeppelin bend rocks. Untied easy peasy after loading it, and held strong.
End result was what I wanted, but how I got there was disappointing and stupid. I'm not at all happy with my performance. Much work is needed. Plus side is I won't have to go up on the weekend, and it's just about ready to start milling when I get time.
Thanks all for your help and insight. It was greatly appreciated :^)
Started with my old weaver line I found. Couldn't get it into the narrow crotch I was aiming for. Might have been 35' up. Figured I'd try my new dynaglide. Unpacked it wrong and spent the next hour untangling it. Boss showed up right as I finished unknotting it. I made a couple tries, then he gave it a shot. Got it tangled in a cherry I had to remove anyway. Once we got the line out, I cut down the cherry. Shut the saw off, tripped on my way out of the limbs, and cut the back of my hand on the chain. Not bad, but lots of blood. He ended up getting it close, but a little far out on the limb. I stopped him before he pulled it down, and told him I could work with that. Got the rope up, but couldn't get it around the stem; it appeared to be hung up on a nubby, and I couldn't flip it over. No problem. I'll tie a running bowline, and force it around the stem with the truck. Tied it up, but got carried away and broke my brand new treemaster; maybe 25'. Never did cinch down right, but the tree was strong. It was rocking after the hard pull, but holding strong. Got a 50' piece of promaster, tied a zeppelin bend, and ended up with this...
Here's the 3:1 I setup...
I didn't set it up long enough. Went down to cut the tree. Got my horizontal in finem but really dicked up my angle, and had a bit of a dutchman. Wood looked fine, and I fixed it up til I considered it sufficient(not perfect), and went to the backcut. Started that, looked, and replaced it a bit higher. Set a wedge, cut through til it /seemed/ right. Added a couple more wedges, but still couldn't get it over. Went up to the truck and started cranking on the maasdam. Nice and easy with a 3:1, but I ran out of pull. Ended up just driving and pulling it over...
That was the bad, and here's the ugly...
I considered glossing over my terrible fell, and not posting the stump, but honesty's the best policy, eh? Hinge is too thick on one side, too thin on the other, and it's all out of level. You can see the dutchman on the far side. Here's the saw I cut it with...
Rain started, and I packed up before bucking everything up.
Notes:
1: I need to settle down and pay attention. I was pissed after screwing around with the throwline, and it blew my concentration. Do it right or don't do it at all.
2: I need to position myself better for the cuts. The bad anglecut was caused by not squaring off with the lay, and not using the sight for that part. That led to fumbling with a long bar that I need to get better familiarity with.
3: I saw my 3:1 was too short when I made it. It should have been fixed then. See 1
4: The zeppelin bend rocks. Untied easy peasy after loading it, and held strong.
End result was what I wanted, but how I got there was disappointing and stupid. I'm not at all happy with my performance. Much work is needed. Plus side is I won't have to go up on the weekend, and it's just about ready to start milling when I get time.
Thanks all for your help and insight. It was greatly appreciated :^)
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Nutball
TreeHouser
The maasdam usually has enough pull to to not need any extra mechanical advantage. Any I've used I was able to get tight enough for the rope to just slip.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #34
I figured the maasdam would be good enough by itself, but I wanted to overbuild just in case. No such thing as too much power as long as you don't break the gear. I have an abundance of time, so why not? I should have set a progress capture. I thought of that as I was setting it up, but didn't do it. Again, cutting corners to just start working. Bad...
Few tips man....
1. Rather than using a running bowline, you can simply go through a crotch up top and tie a running bowline above your cut. This eliminates trying to isolate a limb and then trying to choke it, making it a simpler quicker way to do it. Also if you are trying to choke limbs from the ground, leaving a bigger eye helps, as does putting the end of your throw line in the loop, so if something goes wrong, you can pull it back, and then simply pull out your throw line once it's in place.
2. If you mess up your notch, simply cut another horizontal cut to fix it, and just break out the extra piece. I also lack perfect saw control sometimes, so with big bars and double cutting I'll usually leave a small gap, which is easy to simply knock out with your ax, and since it's more open, it's easier to inspect too.
3. If you have the room, pulling with a truck is acceptable, just understand the forces you are applying.
4. I hope that wasn't your climb line, if so, it's not anymore. You stressed it to at least 5k pounds (you broke it), so that's no way shape or form safe to climb on anymore. You also used a puller, which generates around .75 tons i think, so 1500 pounds on a single line pull. Which would be 4500 pounds because of your 3 to 1 setup. This is far exceeding the load limits.
5. If you are pulling a tree and it's not going over, BUT YOU HAVE CONTROL OF IT (the top is moving, wedges are still going in ok), you can bore the center of the hinge, which is simply making pulling harder while not adding control. Most do that as part of the cutting, so they don't have to fight it.
6. When the entire tree bucks itself when it lands, you made the right call in not climbing it
I'm very conservative with what i climb, but that is my choice. It can be safely done, but i don't have the decades of experience to determine where the line is, so i play it safe. Absolutely no need to climb that either, so no climbing was the right call.
1. Rather than using a running bowline, you can simply go through a crotch up top and tie a running bowline above your cut. This eliminates trying to isolate a limb and then trying to choke it, making it a simpler quicker way to do it. Also if you are trying to choke limbs from the ground, leaving a bigger eye helps, as does putting the end of your throw line in the loop, so if something goes wrong, you can pull it back, and then simply pull out your throw line once it's in place.
2. If you mess up your notch, simply cut another horizontal cut to fix it, and just break out the extra piece. I also lack perfect saw control sometimes, so with big bars and double cutting I'll usually leave a small gap, which is easy to simply knock out with your ax, and since it's more open, it's easier to inspect too.
3. If you have the room, pulling with a truck is acceptable, just understand the forces you are applying.
4. I hope that wasn't your climb line, if so, it's not anymore. You stressed it to at least 5k pounds (you broke it), so that's no way shape or form safe to climb on anymore. You also used a puller, which generates around .75 tons i think, so 1500 pounds on a single line pull. Which would be 4500 pounds because of your 3 to 1 setup. This is far exceeding the load limits.
5. If you are pulling a tree and it's not going over, BUT YOU HAVE CONTROL OF IT (the top is moving, wedges are still going in ok), you can bore the center of the hinge, which is simply making pulling harder while not adding control. Most do that as part of the cutting, so they don't have to fight it.
6. When the entire tree bucks itself when it lands, you made the right call in not climbing it
I'm very conservative with what i climb, but that is my choice. It can be safely done, but i don't have the decades of experience to determine where the line is, so i play it safe. Absolutely no need to climb that either, so no climbing was the right call.- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
It wasn't my climbline. I keep those hard segregated. If I used one for rigging, it would be a rigging line ever after. It was 3strand treemaster. Just sucks cause I literally took it out of the bag today. Oh well. Always say stupid should be painful. Wasn't as painful as deserved imo :^D
Might be able to use the end as a base tie or something. I still need to inspect the rope. I noticed that part that was on the tree was glazed, and a limb pitoned a section into the ground. I just stuck it all in the truck since the rain was starting. I'll look at it this weekend.
Might be able to use the end as a base tie or something. I still need to inspect the rope. I noticed that part that was on the tree was glazed, and a limb pitoned a section into the ground. I just stuck it all in the truck since the rain was starting. I'll look at it this weekend.
ruel
TreeHouser
I still miss cuts sometimes, practice makes better
flushcut
TreeHouser
Every tree is practice. Live and learn, keep your calm.
