Mud Truck Thread!

Wow, I think I hit on a treasure trove here at the HOUSE!

As I said this is new to me. If I sound like I know what I am talking about it is because I have talked to some folks and read a bit.

The idea of getting a rover was to have an interesting looking capable off road truck.
But I want it to also be a daily driver.

The rover is located in Springfield Misery.

Its got 16" steel wheels now with I think BFG mud Terrains. 265/75/r16
That size tire is fine.

As I don't really know what direction I am going with this project, Here are a couple of point which I know I want:

Daily driver
Every part on it, off the shelf here in America. I want to be in some little town in say Wyoming or Cape Cod and be able to get parts.
This means gutting the truck of most if not all rover parts. (did you just hear all those purity rover nuts yell out?)

The truck is now a leafer and a leafer it will stay. No 4 link, But man that sound cool! Here comes frans with his freaking 4 link rover! Look out!.

I do not intend on rock crawling, I just want to build it up so I don't break it under my unskilled off road driving. We do go into Death Valley and the Moab sometimes. So those are strictly 4 wheel drive roads. I have a trip planned down deep into Baja at some point to go fishing with my friend.
I don't go too fast, and I don't 'test' my vehicles. I jsut like to get there and back and have a good time.

Trucks got parabolic springs on it now which is a softer ride, but gives more articulation.

One thing I dont know, is the exact measurements of the axle width. These old rovers came with Salesbury axles which is the equivalent of a Dana 40? I think. Very weak from the factory actually. 12 spline rears factory stock.

I don't mind Toyotas, but several people have told me 'then you will be stuck with toyota wheels'. I don't see that as bad, but I do wonder if the wheel wells will interfere with wheel articulation... or if they will stick out.. just don't know. A bit of wheel sticking out is fine with me, I can just put some eyebrows on there.

In a couple weeks I will know more in terms of actual measurements. Its gonna get tricky with centering the new motor, lining up the output shafts, etc. But trust me, I love to pick people's brains :)

The old series rovers are VERY narrow. Maybe the toyota axles are the best fit. E-lockers sound cool. For what I have done in the past, lockers are pretty essential. It's just too rugged. ARB air lockers are expensive.

Oh, and did I mention, I will be paying for this truck out of my own personal spare change, not a business expense. So that means this build up will take a long long time.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #103
If it were me, I'd find a 3/4T or 1T 4wd 73-87 Cheby laying around, pull the Motor, tranny, transfer case, and axles.

You're a Ford dude so translate that into whatever it needs to be. Having a parts vehicle right there will make the swap really easy in comparison.

Centering and lining the engine up and all isn't that critical, that's why they run U joints, to allow for misalignment :)

I'd stay away from wheel adapters, but that's just me :)

Daniel just dropped this off, a 2wd SM465 4 speed tranny used from 68ish to 91 in GM 1/2T to 2.5T trucks. 175lbs. I traded Daniel two speakers and an amp for the transmission, bell housing, shift fork, and $50. Not sure what I'll use it for, but for $150, I couldn't really pass it up being so local. I would rather my 1 ton be a manual, this tranny would fill that roll.

The 2wd uses a 35 spline output whearas the 4wd used a 10 or 32 spline. Looking at about $50-60 for a different mainshaft, or I could run a divorced t case.

DSC05110.jpg
 
LJ, thats exactly what I started thinking of, grab a chevy and swap.
What stopped me, and I may be able to work around it, is that the chevy small block 350 is actually larger in outside dimensions than the 302. Same block, shorter heads on the 302.
The chevy engine has the distributor at the back, which means I need more clearance back there, but not alot. But my personal experience with chevy engines is I have worked the piss out of them and they keep on running.

No matter what I have to modify the bulkhead and transmission tunnel

ps: I am not a Ford man, I am a slut who buys and uses what is in front of me and works well. :)
pps: I have a pick 'n pull right down the road!
 
I have a client who has a Chevy step side 1/2 T. he might trade for some tree work. The tranny has a granny gear on it which is important to me.
I am guessing I cant use the axles? They are 6 lug.

Fully loaded I am guessing the rover would come in at about 5500 lbs or a tad heavier.
 
Frans said:
I have a client who has a Chevy step side 1/2 T. he might trade for some tree work. The tranny has a granny gear on it which is important to me.
I am guessing I cant use the axles? They are 6 lug.

Fully loaded I am guessing the rover would come in at about 5500 lbs or a tad heavier.
Click to expand...

You could.... run teh p!ss out of them, 'til they break, upgrade, repeat. It's an endless cycle. As to the firewall, you can 2 it ways:

sledgehammer.jpg


or(combined)

sawsall.jpg

1000_action_2.jpg


and

300px-GMAW_weld_area.png
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #108
Cali has alot of options truck wise, I see them quite often and wish I was out there.

On my truck, I'd like for the driveshafts to be the same, so I only need one spare.

If I can work that out, my 2wd tranny will most likely end up feeding into a 32 spline 4wd tranny, into a 205 transfer case. Should be about 53" long from the bell housing to the rear output flange. I believe it will be cheaper than using a doubler, and offer way more options.

Just an idea.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #109
I'm in favor of doing it once, rather than using an aweful 10 or 12 bolt.

Thing is, they break right at the worst of times.
 
I like plasma cutters! forget the surround sound complete living room entertainment center, give me a plasma cutter!

Carl, having just one driveshaft length is a great idea. Less to pack around.

so whats with the 6 lug axles? I cant just jam in two heavier axle half shafts and have a higher rated axle?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #111
Sure, you'll just have to machine and broach or hob the side gears of the weaker axle and you're good to go with larger shafts.

Now you have weaker gears, still a weak carrier, and a lot of money tied up in nothing.

If you could go with 8 lug axles, that would be fairly cheap/easy.
 
You are out of control Carl!!! You are a sick bastid man!!! I can'tbelieve you bought the Rocks!!! I fell proud and sick all at the same time!!!!

Frans, I wouldn't waste my time with the Toy axels, the stock Rovers are stronger. Carl is right, the six lug wheels just add one more lug to the weak axles.

BUT, what you are talking about doing, I don't see the need for 3/4 ton axels either.
What about a Jeep? Find a rotted out Jeep with a Dana 44 and the odd (but findable) floating Dana 44 rear. Parts out the ying yang, and the width should be close to the Rover's stock axles.
Don't laugh at the I-6 either, lots of parts available, and they can be BUILT!!! The tranny I can take or leave, but they do work.
The killer of these builds is in the driveshafts!! SPARE NO COST ON THE DRIVE SHAFT!!!!
Just throwing out some more ideas.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #114
I surely wouldn't go for a 44 rear in a 5klb vehicle, I was thinking a 44 front, and a 14b srw for the rear. Both can be had for fairly little ($500 for the pair is the average, seen them as low as $250, or you could just pull them from a donor truck along with the rest of the driveline.)

A 60ff rear is fairly cheap as well, and can be had in the same pattern as the front 44. My thoughts on 3/4 axles was so he could buy one truck and have all the stuff he needed.

14bolts are the tits, cheap, plenty of parts, hella strong. A 44 8 lug or 44HD is common, decently strong, and most importantly, found in the front of the same vehicle the 14 bolt came from (if it's 4wd).

FWIW, a GM10 bolt and a Dana 44 are the same in regards to strength (and alot of parts).

Another bitch about 1/2 axles are they are nearly all semi floaters, which means (in the GM family) that if you break an axle, the tire will leave the vehicle. With a 14bolt (or 60FF or 44FF) you can lock the diff and drive home on the single axle shaft. I would go for a 60FF before a 44FF for the strength and the fact they are more common.
 
sawinredneck said:
Frans, I wouldn't waste my time with the Toy axels, the stock Rovers are stronger.
Click to expand...

Funny you should say that. Here is a link to a guy I have been talking to. He re-works the rover axles

http://www.seriestrek.com/

Tell me what you think about his axles. I think, with shipping, I would be looking at around 3 grand for the set. Kinda high?

I would really like to just find a standard axle set and go with it, not mess with too much tricky mods. The idea is to be able to pick up spares/replacements in any town or city in America.
 
or 3K I'll build you a narrowed set of Rocks Frans!!! Sorry, but no thanks!!!

I hear you Carl, I am all about the 14B (You should know that:lol:) But I think it's overkill in this instance! And I personally (no proof) feel the 44 is built a bit stronger than the 10-12B.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #118
Since the 44 uses the same size ring gear, pinion, axle shafts, axle spline, and splindles, I'm venturing a guess to say that the 44 is the same strength as a 10 bolt front end.

A 44FF is stronger than a 10/12 Bolt rear for sure.

What's wrong with overkill, especially when it's CHEAPER? Reduced ground clearance is one downside, but that can be helped with a good shave.

Frans, one problem with those axles is you won't be finding parts for them at Tom, Dick or Hairy's shop in the middle of Baja. Another problem is for that money you could buy a complete, well running, 3/4ton truck, and new 33" tires including the spare.

Steering could be interesting, don't know how Rovers are setup.
 
lumberjack said:
Frans, one problem with those axles is you won't be finding parts for them at Tom, Dick or Hairy's shop in the middle of Baja. Another problem is for that money you could buy a complete, well running, 3/4ton truck, and new 33" tires including the spare.

Steering could be interesting, don't know how Rovers are setup.
Click to expand...

I agree. I want to stay away from being too specialized. I like the rover, but hate all the british crap like lucas wireing.
Rather go with standard stuff.


As for the rover steering? There is none. Have to install power steering.
 
Thats where the donor vehicle saves you're BUTT!!!!
If you want durablity, parts availability, some what reasonable price, and TOUGH as nails, maybe some custom built Ford 9 inch axles?
I know why Carl is pushing the 3/4 tonners, they are cheap and everywhere. I just think for that thing they are heavy, and you loose some of the "cool factor" running eight lug rims on something like that.
Other than the axle shafts and housings everything else will be off the shelf parts. You can have them set up for any brakes you want as well as 3/4 or one ton universal joints and drive shafts.
Have two sets of carriers put together and inan hour you have new gears front and rear!!
These guys have been around for years!!
http://www.currieenterprises.com/

I still think the Jeep donor is a good ticket also, but thats me.
 
If the axles fit, I am seriously considering chevy. They are all over the place and it is a buyers market right now around here
 
Frans said:
If the axles fit, I am seriously considering chevy. They are all over the place and it is a buyers market right now around here
Click to expand...

I wont talk you out of them, I am just thinking they will be wide.
Thats one of my pet peeves, Jeeps with wide axles going down the road.
 
That too. I just think they look like shit. Huge fender flares that don't even cover half the tire.
There is a place around here that sells themselves as Jeep builders.
If you built it, then the axles are under the body, like they are supposed to be, keeping the Jeep narrow and agile.
Now we have a short Suburban rnning down the road!
 
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