MS 461

[Al Smith]

The two that Tom has he likes and prefers them to the 044 and 440 they replaced .Of his saws I prefer the 460 obviously but I don't use the things to make a living with .I've found for what ever reason the damned 441's can get to be a pain in the buttocks to get started or I don't know the practicular quirks they get .

It almost seems at times that saws are kind of like women in a sense .They might all be sisters but they all have their thing you have to figure out .I do just fine with saws and am still working on that other yet to be answered great mystery .I'll publish a book if I ever live long enough to figure that out .Best seller no doubt .

 

[HolmenTree]

I'll publish a book if I ever live long enough to figure that out .Best seller no doubt .

Al I'm with you on that, if I ever wrote a chainsaw book you would be one of the first I would get info help from. A up to date history / tech book is needed these days.

 

[Al Smith]

As far as old I might be of some help but this newer stuff quite honestly I'm out of the loop .

 

[HolmenTree]

As far as old I might be of some help but this newer stuff quite honestly I'm out of the loop .

I agree, but theres lots of informed guys over on Cut4Fun's site on the new micro processor saws. Mostly not endusers but dealers who will benifit from this new technology, and that's the way it should be, enduser makes an income with the saw and the dealer does the same selling them.
I wouldn't even think a book is in order until at least 5 years after the first fuel injected saws are introduced.

 

[Al Smith]

Guys like me will not even be subjected to those things until they are considered old.

Early last spring Tom thought he blew a piston on one of his 441's so he bought a new one and dropped me off the old one .All it was was it blew the sparkplug out for some reason . So there went my chances to disect one.

I still don't know if it was a dealer more bent on selling a new saw or not .No big deal I guess because he could always use a few extra saws from time to time depending on the crew sizes . Chit happens .

 

[mastermind7864]

Hey Randy Thanks for coming over to help these guys out. They are looking for someone on this site that does port work and etc.

No worries Kevin. I've been meaning to get back over here for awhile now......we've just been slammed in the shop these days.....not much time for surfing the net.

I am very interested.

I'm easy to find ya know.

The ported 441 looks kick A. Tom's saw sounds too rich on the H.

Just wondering, Randy, are you doing piston modifications on the work mods?

I don't do any piston mods on worksaws.......as a matter of fact we rarely remover the clips.....

We build saws just for work so I would rather leave a bit on the table in the name of total reliability.

441's are turds once you move up from a 20" bar. I like mine with a 20" bar but found it to be an ultra smooth dog when I went to 24".

The 441C is plenty strong after mods to even pull a 32 with authority.....at least that's been my experience.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xFxg-yT0S4A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.

 

[HolmenTree]

Not trying to derail here, but to add to my history lesson about the 461's pre decessor the 046 and its big brothers the 064 and 066.
Here are their specs from my owner's manuals, sorry no KW or HP ratings. The maxium engine speeds between the 064 and 066 are confusing. The 064 spec says 12,000 rpm max. engine speed with bar & chain. The 066 spec says 13,500 rpm maximum engine speed [ cut-off speed]
But I have seen lots of mistakes in Stihls manuals, look at the 046 and 064 specs having the same bore and stroke mm size
In order 046, 064, 066.

 

[Al Smith]

I think what gets confusing is those RPM's are given with what Stihl had determined a safe speed with stock porting would be safe to run without leaning out the saw .Once the porting scheme has been altered they really don't apply .Fact I have several that will "4 stroke" at several thousand rpm's above factory recommendations .

 

[woodworkingboy]

I don't do any piston mods on worksaws.......as a matter of fact we rarely remover the clips.....
We build saws just for work so I would rather leave a bit on the table in the name of total reliability.

I would certainly defer to greater experience with seeing results, but I have lightened pistons and opened up the windows, made pop-ups, and never had an engine failure on hard run work saws resulting from any of that. Up to a point I don't see it as a question of affecting reliability. Perhaps the piston work might not be worth the gains, I don't have have the ability to make comparisons based on saws with or without piston modifications, as I have always included the piston when powering up. Doing the piston as well, definitely adds time to the project.

 

[Tucker943]

No worries Kevin. I've been meaning to get back over here for awhile now......we've just been slammed in the shop these days.....not much time for surfing the net.



I'm easy to find ya know.



I don't do any piston mods on worksaws.......as a matter of fact we rarely remover the clips.....

We build saws just for work so I would rather leave a bit on the table in the name of total reliability.



The 441C is plenty strong after mods to even pull a 32 with authority.....at least that's been my experience.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xFxg-yT0S4A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.

Im not into saw modding. I admire it, and think its neat. But for me, a saw comes off the dealer shelf, gets 2 file strokes per tooth and gets put to work. I don't judge a tool by its abilities after being modified. I would certainly like to have a saw modded one day. a 372.

 

[Magnus]

I don't get the idea behind buying a new saw that needs mod to fit the needs.
Why not get a saw that fit the needs? Put pressure on the mfg's to make saws we want and are willing to pay fore instead.

 

[MasterBlaster]

All saws can be improved.

 

[Magnus]

That is right. So why pay big bucks for it and still do the work?

 

[Tucker943]

All saws can be improved for sure. But Ive used many models that left me very happy in their stock form. ex. 372xp, 394xp, 288xp, 200t(minus screen), 066.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I think it is hard to impress on someone the plus of running well modded saws, without them trying them out. I mean even the sound is cool, albeit a bit loud often. Stock saws can work very well, but still somewhat boring.

 

[mastermind7864]

I would certainly defer to greater experience with seeing results, but I have lightened pistons and opened up the windows, made pop-ups, and never had an engine failure on hard run work saws resulting from any of that. Up to a point I don't see it as a question of affecting reliability. Perhaps the piston work might not be worth the gains, I don't have have the ability to make comparisons based on saws with or without piston modifications, as I have always included the piston when powering up. Doing the piston as well, definitely adds time to the project.

I used to open the piston windows and spend some time blending and smoothing inside the piston.......but I don't bother anymore. I've found much more gain in transfer port shape and compression increases.

 

[Al Smith]

That piston work it seems there are two trains of thought on that which nobody can agree on .I've seen them done both with modified pistons and basically stock and they both do good .

Funny though on another site I'm no longer welcome on some of the gurus will expound on not to dome the pistons and I know damned well they do .They just say they don't .

I say whatever floats your boat .If it feels good do it .If you screw it up it obviously didn't work so well .

 

[rumination]

I think it is hard to impress on someone the plus of running well modded saws, without them trying them out. I mean even the sound is cool, albeit a bit loud often. Stock saws can work very well, but still somewhat boring.

I'm with you on that one Jay. I never thought too much about modded saws until I got one. I was looking to buy a 346xp several years back and someone on the forum was selling a lightly used woods modded one for a good deal. Man, I love that saw. With an 18" bar and 3/8 chain it cuts just as fast as the 362 I use at work. And it's so much lighter, which is important for a wimpy guy like me. It is crazy loud, though.

 

[mastermind7864]

Right on Al.

We've stopped using popup pistons......mainly because we gain better control over the exhaust and transfer timing by lowering to jug and cutting the squish band. On the MS660 and later models of the 390XP that comes in handy because the exhaust is just too high on those saws for a really strong torquey long bar pulling mfer. )

 

[Al Smith]

It would depend on the saw .For instance a stock 038 mag has about 100-102 degree opening stock on the exhaust .It also has around 46 thou free space above the piston of which is easy enough to cut a lot off it ,still run a gasket (20 thou ) and still raise up the ex to say 96 .Gain some R's and still have the torque .

I think on a 200 you only have about 32-35 thou to work with so you can't cut much off less you get a head knocker .

Funny the old 10 series Macs were already set at 96 after but that's a whole 'nother ball game with them .

You know some of those guys got side lined and blind sided on cookie cutters .Raised them up to 90-92 and they sounded like a model airplane engines .Blasted through 8 by 8 poplar but were not worth a hoot in the woods .I guess it's where ever you head is at .

To me it's just fun tinkering to see what can be done .If I did it on a full time basis it would become a job and I seriously doubt I would get that much enjoyed out of it .