High Back Cut, Burnham Style!

[klimbinfool]

No Netree, Just adding to some of the forum is all.Wether you put your back cut level, higher or below, theres a reason and you need to no when or not to use them. Burnham, gave a us a fine example of when he uses a high stump shot and the forum went from there. Although, they tend to wonder I guess thats the way these forums go sometimes.

 

[NeTree]

No sweat Greg.

 

[Gord]

Blasting is never an option for you guys Burnham?

 

[woodworkingboy]

I don't dwell on it so much time when cutting a tree, pretty much just do it....more gut feeling going on at location, with maybe some pause to consider at times. At the forum it's another thing, with the luxury of time. Probably like that for most.

 

[Al Smith]

Heres a pic of a face cut if your not familiar, which helps compliment a higher back cut by holding it on the stump a little longer.Notice the gap at the back of the face.

That is about the same as Gerry B. did in the top of that giant redwood a hundred feet up .

 

[Burnham]

I guess what is confusing me in this thread, is that a high back cut for stump shot, is also being cited as a method to give the hinge more time to work (I think). I understand the carry over, but my thinking is that stump shot, and the strength of the hinge, are really two different subjects that require separate thinking, due to the variables brought about by species, and how the back cut is being progressed. Even with a high back cut, it would seem that progressing the cut to the point where the hinge is getting cut up so fine, as in the first post, you are basically greatly reducing the holding qualities of the hinge. I understand that can work in your favor, too.

I guess to put it another way, it comes down to at what point do you stop cutting, and have the wedge able to do it's work, and also have the most favorable directional control possible from the hinge, that seems to be the main point of attention, also considering the trees situation and what is required. A high back cut puts an odd element into the mix.

They are very much two different subjects, Jay. My initial purpose in starting the thread was to emphasize the use of significant stump shot in that particular situation...my reasons for using it to mitigate tha risks associated with that specific fell.

More flex in the hinge comes with offset in elevation, as we've noted...but that was not the issue I intended to address. And you are surely correct...if you cut the hinge up as fine as I did to overcome those internal branch stubs, you are just as surely reducing the overall flex the hinge can sustain, and thus the period during the fall that the hinge can function well.

We wander about in conversation, all to the good in most cases .

 

[Fiddler]

I have quite enjoyed the "wandering" in this thread.

 

[klimbinfool]

Al, Yes similar. What Gerry did is what we call a block out style face with a snipe. Same as my avitar.

Burnham, how much pounding did you have to do to get that tree to come over?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I have quite enjoyed the "wandering" in this thread.

We do that a lot, here.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

And Burnam's threads are always the shiz nit!

 

[wiley_p]

Blasting is never an option for you guys Burnham?

That's what I was referring to with the "binary" remark. I somehow thought Burnham was working with the road crew among his other duties.

 

[stig]

I think y'all are over-thinking the living crap out of this subject.

I disagree.
For someone who only falls a moderate amount of trees, one that goes a little astray or gets hung up may not be a big deal.

For a production faller, like myself, cutting to scale, a hung up tree is simply a waste of money, since time= money in that setting.

So for me to be very conscious about how small details in the undercut affects the outcome, is not overthinking the subject, but a way to maximize my earnings.

The only reason I,at my age; can still outlog all the youngsters around here is that I have never gotten sloppy, but have been constantly looking for new ways to hone my falling and bucking tecnique.
So when I fall a tree in the woods, it goes where I want it to ( mostly)

Besides that, it is fun to know how things work.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Greg, how do you normally make those gaps at the hinge, could you please explain the sequence of cuts.

Thanks.

 

[Burnham]

Al, Yes similar. What Gerry did is what we call a block out style face with a snipe. Same as my avitar.

Burnham, how much pounding did you have to do to get that tree to come over?

Greg, I kept the wedges tight, fairly hard driving the first two attempts against what I thought would be the final hinge dimension...and I was getting pretty good lift at the beginning of each cycle. Then it would tighten up and stop moving. The last time I went back at the hinge with the saw and took it up really fine like the photo showed, the tree moved forward a smidge on it's own under the existing pressure. I pulled the saw and it only took the least little taps to push it over center.

Blasting is never an option for you guys Burnham?

That's what I was referring to with the "binary" remark. I somehow thought Burnham was working with the road crew among his other duties.

Blasting is a hard option for me to pull together here on the Mt. Hood NF. Just a matter of lack of available qualified personnel. It is possible, but I'd be in a bad way if it was needed to deal with a hazard that shouldn't be left untended to.

Like I mentioned in response to Dave earlier, in 2004 the force account road crews were abolished on this Forest, all the equipment surplused, 100's of cumulative years of experience forced into unwanted retirements. Don't get me started on upper management mistakes leading to this unhappy reality.

 

[klimbinfool]

Thanks Burnham

Jay is it? Sorry still trying to get all the names down here. On that size of a tree and type wood, pretty simple. Which ever cut you make second, wether the angle or horizontal cut, just drop it down and match up both sides. Again, with that small of a tree and being redwood, you can take a axe and pretty much blast it out of there and then clean up the rest with the saw.

If you cant get it out, you can do a couple things. Bore into the face in several locations and nock it out with a axe or place a wedge in the vertical cuts you just made in the face and bust them out. Of course when all said and done, the face still has to be straight and clean.

Being I do just as many deciduous? ( How do you spell that) as conifir, I some times will use the same cut on the limb structure. Especially if I'm swinging limbs into a drop zone with out a rope or even when roping. It will give you quite a bit more movement. Species dependent and you have to experiment with the amount of gap.On smaller limbs say, 3 to 4" you will have to make another horizontal cut into the face( maybe more) break the waifers out with your bar and then clean the rest up.. I'll post a few pics later. Got to run.

 

[FJR]

This is a great thread with a boatload of useful information, thank you B man, Dave, Stig, and everyone else for sharing. Honestly, I feel honored just to be able to read this stuff sometimes. It would be so cool to have get together orientated for felling, I know I have tons to learn yet... maybe someday

 

[stig]

That is really interesting, Greg. I've never thought of using that facecut to swing a branch, but it is quite logical that it'll give you some more swing before it breaks.
I'll be experimenting with that next time I have a chance.

 

[NeTree]

Stig, you forget... I spend as much time production falling as I do doing residential removals.

I didn't say the subject wasn't good, or interesting; just that more thought is being put into the science and mechanics of hingewood than really exists.

Ferchrissakes, cut the fookin' thing already!

JMHO.... take it or leave it.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Ferchrissakes, cut the fookin' thing already!

I think most guys do.

A lot of people in one manual trade or another, will think to themselves, "after doing it all day, just what I want to do is go home and talk about it". With tree work, that often isn't the case, talking about it is cool.

 

[squisher]

Yah, what the hell? This is the felling forum. I've been accused of things before, but not often of thinking to much. It's just kicking around some idears, shoot nothing to get your panties in a bunch over.

 

[NeTree]

Watch it, Flipper....

 

[squisher]

Lmao




It's BC day here today. I've been espescially mouthy all weekend.

 

[Bounce]

That explains a lot Squish! I'll try to be more lenient of Canuck drivers around here on BC day.

 

[Gord]

Nothing more BC-ish than going shopping in Bellingham when the dollar's good.

 

[Paul B]

or drinking a cold can of Canadian and doing NOTHING productive.