GRCS Rope

[lumberjack]

...Why get a 20,000 lb rated line for it? If you start working with the line strengths then you begin working beyond the recommended ratings of he GRCS...

What happened to the advised 10x safety factor?

I went with the line because it's super static, was cheap, well suited for the winch, and gives me a wide safety margin for more cycles to failure.

 

[sotc]

What happened to the advised 10x safety factor?

your tree crotch will usually be lower than 20,000 pound, specially at a 10x factor

 

[Ace76]

http://www.pelicanrope.com/kevlarropes.html

 

[Frans]

I went with the line because it's super static, was cheap, well suited for the winch, and gives me a wide safety margin for more cycles to failure.

I could be wrong but... these new(ish) high strength modulus lines have a 'shorter' cycle to failure than traditional lines. In other words the more you bend it, the faster it breaks down.

Sure would like to talk to a rope expert about this...

 

[Will]

anyone used Amseel blue?

 

[rbtree]

I could be wrong but... these new(ish) high strength modulus lines have a 'shorter' cycle to failure than traditional lines. In other words the more you bend it, the faster it breaks down.

Sure would like to talk to a rope expert about this...

That I haven't heard. Of course, high mod lines shouldn't be shock loaded, but I've heard the lines can be used at a high percentage of tensile strength repeatedly. Bending it over a tight radius may be a problem....but, the radius on a Harken drum shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[rbtree]

I would not recommend anything with a dyneema or spectra core because of it's low melting point. If you bombed a big piece into it, the friction of the rope running around the capstan might do some damage to the core. Of course you wouldn't see this because it's inside, covered by a polyester cover with a higher melting point. You would only find out about this on the next piece when it broke.

Bounce, that's a given, or it should be. Ther should be no shock loading on any high mod lines... I don't think the arbo supply houses make this clear in their catalogs....

Now, when lowering heavy loads after picking, they are coming down slow (or should be) so there's little heat build-up.

 

[rbtree]

A point which is not often discussed is that the high mod lines were created for static pulls/loads.
In tree work, the majority of load line rope work involves dynamic loading.

I have ruined several VERY expensive high mod static ropes to date.

What were you doing with them, Frans?

I have 3, but one is brand new, the other only used a couple times, and the third is due for replacement but still servicable. That said, I really don't use them that much.....

 

[rbtree]

I think the core is vectran (V for vectran, v for validator) but I could be wrong on that one.

love
nick

Gotcha, Nick...Vectran has even less creep, I think, and is a bit pricier....prolly not needed for tree work....but doesn't it handle heat better than basic spectra or dyneema?

 

[NickfromWI]

Yes, it handles heat WAY better. Dyneema is around 300* melting point, polyester is around 400*, vectran is around 700-800*.

Tree guys will never notice the lack of creep. It's the high strength and high heat resistance we should care about.

Do sailor run dyneema cored lines on their winches?

love
nick

 

[No_Bivy]

sterling HTP....bomber, versitle, in-expensive

 

[gf beranek]

Back in 69 I went to a supply house on College Ave. in Santa Rosa, right by the tracks. I think it was Bell Industries. At that time they had the rope that every arborist wanted, one inch manila, Tubbs brand, sold it by the pound.

I told the guy there, "Gi'me 200 feet." Man what a heap that was. And it weight over 100 pounds. By the time I wrestled with it to get it in the truck I was covered in splinters and whatever kind of noxious stuff they used to preserve it. Funky smelling.

Boy I was proud of it though. Had two old rigging snatch blocks that weight in at about 30 lbs apiece. Spliced me a couple of slings, more splinters, and I was in business.

One day working in the rain that bull line soaked up over 100 lbs of water. I was young and strong but didn't have the strength to coil it up. We coiled all our ropes in those days. If you stuffed a wet manila rope in bag and let it set for a week there would be mushrooms growing out of it.

Yeah, those were the good old days.

 

[No_Bivy]

...no doubt....got any pics from those archives?

 

[gf beranek]

Mostly of people I worked with back then, not many pic's of our old tools and ropes. But, that avatar of yours could have come right out of those times. The best we had in those days wouldn't even rate today.

When the young generation starts knocking old school ways and people who use them I just remember back when it was state of the art.

It seemed back then that it was going to stay that way too. It really wasn't until the mid 90's that the ropes, tools and rigging started becoming more specialized in our industry. But more importantly the new schools of thought began to be heard.

From the 90's to present day the industry has never evolved faster. I'm sure the internet had the most to do with that.

 

[Frans]

What were you doing with them, Frans?

I have 3, but one is brand new, the other only used a couple times, and the third is due for replacement but still servicable. That said, I really don't use them that much.....

Uhmm, well, lets just say (for the record), that I was NOT thinking about saving any rope that day...

RBTree: Bounce, that's a given, or it should be. Ther should be no shock loading on any high mod lines... I don't think the arbo supply houses make this clear in their catalogs....

I really really think that not many people even know this, let alone preach it.
Yer average tree guy is thinking, Wow! Stronger! Mo better!

 

[NickfromWI]

I really really think that not many people even know this, let alone preach it. Yer average tree guy is thinking, Wow! Stronger! Mo better!

I explain it to taking a whipper in rock climbing on dynamic vs. static line. But now do it with a huge log. The loads a WAY higher. Shock absorption needs to come from somewhere and it ain't gonna come from a dyneema line!

love
nick

 

[brendonv]

Some have mentioned the SWL of the grcs is 2000lbs...indeed it says this on the label.

Anyone watch the new video? That large spar Greg is lowering solo has got to be over 2k, no?

 

[lumberjack]

I keep it under 3k for static moves.

 

[rbtree]

Without resorting to mechanical advantage, we've maxed out the GRCS a couple times, doing storm damged trees...as in cranking 'er up for all we're worth.....two guys can kinda get on the crank together, though there ain't much room....specially if a behemoth like ya, Carl, be the other fella....

I'm sure, if the 46-1 advantage is accurate, it would be easy, before friction losses, to apply 5000 pounds or more of force. I see no problems with working with loads like that as long as it's lifting with little or no shock loading.

Of course, the GRCS better be anchored darn well, as in cut into the tree, via notches for the unit and straps, or the new visor plate, which I've yet to pick up from Sean....and, you need HMWPE lines for their near 100% direct transfer of power.

Last week, we were tip tying and lifting pine logs...when the GRCS started to slip. Luckily, we were able to quickly ratchet the strap 2 clicks tighter.. We'd negelcted to anchor the unit properly....

 

[rbtree]

Uhmm, well, lets just say (for the record), that I was NOT thinking about saving any rope that day...



I really really think that not many people even know this, let alone preach it.
Yer average tree guy is thinking, Wow! Stronger! Mo better!

Ummmm...so, were they some of the lines you used on the Volvo vid, big fella?

Hmmm, well, if what you say is true, and it well could be, then the catalog folks better start printing some usage guidelines....Sherril has always been the leader there with their instruction laden catalogs.....I may have all of them since 1994 or so.....

 

[lumberjack]

I'm fairly certain I would puss out before I hit 5k. A DWT would get it back down to my SWL and make the whole process alot mo saferer.

Lets see, 46(MA)/5klbs=108lbs of force on the crank. I could manage that solo, but I'd be skeeered!

 

[rbtree]

Back in 69 I went to a supply house on College Ave. in Santa Rosa, right by the tracks. I think it was Bell Industries. At that time they had the rope that every arborist wanted, one inch manila, Tubbs brand, sold it by the pound.

I told the guy there, "Gi'me 200 feet." Man what a heap that was. And it weight over 100 pounds. By the time I wrestled with it to get it in the truck I was covered in splinters and whatever kind of noxious stuff they used to preserve it. Funky smelling.

Boy I was proud of it though. Had two old rigging snatch blocks that weight in at about 30 lbs apiece. Spliced me a couple of slings, more splinters, and I was in business.

One day working in the rain that bull line soaked up over 100 lbs of water. I was young and strong but didn't have the strength to coil it up. We coiled all our ropes in those days. If you stuffed a wet manila rope in bag and let it set for a week there would be mushrooms growing out of it.

Yeah, those were the good old days.

Bump for the great story!

You got into the industry as a very young pup, didn't ya, Ger?!

I think I'm a bit older than you, but didn't start climbing daily till 1975, at the ripe old age of 26.....So, I only climbed on manila for a coupla years. And for bull rope, well, I never worked on anything of any real size back in those days.

I do recall using a Homelite Whiz Saw with a 5 or 6 foot bar and stinger to buck a 5' maple to 13 inch lengths.....back in 76 or thereabouts.

And, from a log show this Saturday, I got to handle Charlie ___?'s 55 pound 3-1 reduction geared McCullogh. He made several cuts with it, in 22 or so inch wood, but with its 5 foot bar...Oh, and he used it for the felling contest as well, I think! err, maybe he used his 090, which was only sporting a 4 foot bar....I have pics, I reckon I could go check!

RotaxRobert and another fella tied with direct hits on the Miller HiLife targets...Ax-Men star Jay Browning and another guy commented on their misses, "Cool, this way I get to put the beer to a better and higher use!"

 

[rbtree]

I'm fairly certain I would puss out before I hit 5k. A DWT would get it back down to my SWL and make the whole process alot mo saferer.

Lets see, 46(MA)/5klbs=108lbs of force on the crank. I could manage that solo, but I'd be skeeered!

Skeery lookin' too! But we all know that....

 

[NickfromWI]

Harken makes a crank that is designed to make room for 2 people