flushcut
TreeHouser
^ I second this.
Rope For Ghetto Fiddle Block?
- Thread starter lxskllr
- Start date
- Replies 45
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However you apply it, that's all good, but I think good pulleys are the key to quality of performance. Micro pulleys suck especially plastic on steel axle. The rope tension ratio losses compound so it's worse than just proportional to the quality of your pulleys. Consider at least 2 to 3" groove diameter pulleys. IMO
I rigged up a many to 1 fiddle block to pull a tree once using micro pulleys and it was so bad it confused/stumped me, until I did some research years later and discovered the aha moment.
I rigged up a many to 1 fiddle block to pull a tree once using micro pulleys and it was so bad it confused/stumped me, until I did some research years later and discovered the aha moment.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #28
Well, we'll find out. Everything's on it's way aside from biners I want to dedicate to the setup. I stupidly didn't check CMI before I hit the [Submit] button. I might try to make a ghetto test for my ghetto rig. Find a smallish tree pull it by hand, then try it with the pulleys, and see if I can pull it farther. A load cell would be better :^D
Eric H-L
Treehouser
Pictures please once you get it sorted.
I went down a similar path. I had been tempted by super low priced fiddle blocks on Amazon. In the end I found some Crosby-Western manila rope blocks on eBay. If you are patient you can find some deals. Very heavy! I have not used them on trees but I had good results on a couple of wire pulls at work .
Eric H-L
Treehouser
That one is not what I bought. I did get several that seemed like unused old stock. Not in box and cosmetic blems from handling.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
I haven't set my rig up yet to try. I had a perfect tree in my yard to do a pull test, but I cut it down about a week before making this thread(of course) :^D It was small enough to move, but big enough to give real resistance and give a good judge of how much extra pull I was getting.
Eric H-L
Treehouser
This is the data sheet for the current Crosby-Western manila rope blocks. The wooden padded one had a design change in the last 20 years but I think the rope size, WLL, sheave diameter, and weight of the block are roughly the same as the vintage blocks on eBay. The double and triple blocks for larger size rope get crazy heavy. Also these WLL designed for manila rope are much lower than the kind of loads you can lift with synthetic ropes so use caution. https://www.thecrosbygroup.com/html/en-US/pdf/pgs/390.pdf
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Bought two of these on Ebay years ago. They eventually wore out with extreme duty abuse. Pulling logs of 1000# water logged on 5:1 up and over bolders etc. Years mind you prior.
Bought another pair holding up to more years with less abuse.
Not disappointed and will take up to 5/8ths.
Bought another pair holding up to more years with less abuse.
Not disappointed and will take up to 5/8ths.
Multipurpose 32KN Heavy Duty Pulley Double Sheave Rigging Arborist Rock Climbing | eBay
Upward Strength: 32KN / 7100 lbs. Various applications: Rock climbing, exploring, rappelling, hauling, tensioning, dragging, pulling system, lifting loads, arborist, tree working, caving,, engineering protection, ski patrol, work and so on.
www.ebay.com
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
Ok, I took all the stuff out today and gave it a try pulling on a mulberry stem. I don't have a good sense of the force I was generating. I really need a loadcell, or something like that. Biggest problem I see so far is my progress capture prusik is way too long, but that's easy enough to fix.
Here's the kit. It's the bag of hardware, and ~75' of promaster with an eye spliced on one end. That kit will fit in my cargo pocket minus the rope...
Here's the kit expanded. It a haul line prusik(10mm flex), a progress capture prusik(9.xmm rit). 4 aluminum screwlock biners, rated 30kn, made in Taiwan, $10/each from cmi. 2 double sheave micropulleys, rated 30kn, and a single pulley for an optional redirect. I think it's 30kn...
Here's the working end. The flex prusik gripping the haul rope, the spliced eye attached to the becket of the pulley, then back and forth from the anchor pulley to the haul pulley...
And here's the anchor side. Way too much sitback on the progress capture. It's attached to the spliced eye leg of the system that goes to the becket of the haul pulley...
It gets a little confusing to setup with all the rope legs. Have to pay attention to keep from mixing up the lines.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
You are going to lose some of your pulling power to friction using 3 strand in the pulley system. It has more tendency to twist the system creating friction between the legs.
Never much cared for a prussic for capture. I prefer a rope grab as there is less set back.
I have one of these for cature. They have gone up in price since I bought. But takes up to 5/8ths rope. Which does come in handy on certain applications.
www.wesspur.com
Never much cared for a prussic for capture. I prefer a rope grab as there is less set back.
I have one of these for cature. They have gone up in price since I bought. But takes up to 5/8ths rope. Which does come in handy on certain applications.
US Standard Adjuster - 1/2" to 5/8"
DetailsU.S. Standard Rope Grab from Climb Right. The tensioning spring is mounted inside the cam, so there is no external spring cable to snag or cut. A compact and lightweight flipline adjuster, made in the USA. Repair kits available. Specifications Manufacturer: Spyder Manufacturing Minimum...
www.wesspur.com
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I have been able to tighten up a prussic method with a very tightly made VT set up. Tying my own eyes. Down side is that double fishermans knots can really clamp down on the crab making it interesting to disassemble the system.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #39
Main reasons I used the 3strand was I already had it, and it isn't a rope I use much. If I'm thinking 3strand, I'm usually thinking treemaster. It's also easy for me to splice. Makes me feel like I'm good at splicing :^D
It's a starting point. Something to give me a feel for use on the cheap, and I can adjust later if I need something better.
edit:
I do have a ropegrab I might be able to use. I have one on my flipline, but it's all the way down on the tail. I've been using a prusik, and like that much better. I left the mechanical grab on in case I do a pine or something like that, but I could probably manage without it.
It's a starting point. Something to give me a feel for use on the cheap, and I can adjust later if I need something better.
edit:
I do have a ropegrab I might be able to use. I have one on my flipline, but it's all the way down on the tail. I've been using a prusik, and like that much better. I left the mechanical grab on in case I do a pine or something like that, but I could probably manage without it.
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CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I'll see what I have lying about. But dont rule out the 3/8ths stable braid or even Samson accessory cordage. 8mm has about a 3500# tensile strength. Cheap.
200# pull into a 5:1 system is 1000# pull potential. And each leg of the system does not realise that 1000#
www.wesspur.com
www.wesspur.com
Click to expand details and it will give you the table
200# pull into a 5:1 system is 1000# pull potential. And each leg of the system does not realise that 1000#
Samson Accessory Cord
DetailsSamson accessory cord has a ton of uses, from light haul lines, prusiks, and tie-downs to pruner cord or even high-strength boot laces; you will find a use for a range of cordage in your daily work. Sold by the foot. 300' maximum continuous length. Specifications Tensile Strength - 2mm...
www.wesspur.com
Samson Accessory Cord
DetailsSamson accessory cord has a ton of uses, from light haul lines, prusiks, and tie-downs to pruner cord or even high-strength boot laces; you will find a use for a range of cordage in your daily work. Sold by the foot. 300' maximum continuous length. Specifications Tensile Strength - 2mm...
www.wesspur.com
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #41
I could get a 100' of that, and see how it works. I've been wanting to try it anyway. I like having cord for prusiks that isn't heat resistant. It's cheap, and seems to be more flexible. I currently have a bit of sterling cord I like, but wesspur doesn't sell that anymore.
I seldom use a progress capture unless i absolutely need it, just more to get in the way usually. It's pretty easy to tie off a single end, or even just jam the tail in the block to lock it (not when lifting obviously). A tautline with the bight works great too, just tie it around the parts of line. If I'm gonna use one a helical works pretty good, use a slip knot to clip the biner, and the bowline used to finish the knot makes it easy to untie afterwards too. 3 strand anywhere in the system will make the blocks rotate unless you account for it somehow, and the harder the pull the harder the twist, sometimes so dramatically that it will lock up.
If you didn't reeve them in the correct order it'll be worse, and i think right hand reeving helps a bit, especially if you get the blocks close together. That's the same set i carry in my bag at work, i carry an old hank of arborplex that works well enough with it, although a smaller diameter more flexible rope would be better because of the lower friction. Also it's ok to use less parts of line if needed, preferably with a single block so it doesn't rub the side checks because of the block tilting. You can clip another single on the becket to add more parts too, very handy kit, but it's trading compactness for almost everything else, the larger ones Eric posted are nicer in use. And they can be used in conjunction with a winch too, so a cheap and small sailboat winch can really add to their utility, ebay has used ones for a song.
If you didn't reeve them in the correct order it'll be worse, and i think right hand reeving helps a bit, especially if you get the blocks close together. That's the same set i carry in my bag at work, i carry an old hank of arborplex that works well enough with it, although a smaller diameter more flexible rope would be better because of the lower friction. Also it's ok to use less parts of line if needed, preferably with a single block so it doesn't rub the side checks because of the block tilting. You can clip another single on the becket to add more parts too, very handy kit, but it's trading compactness for almost everything else, the larger ones Eric posted are nicer in use. And they can be used in conjunction with a winch too, so a cheap and small sailboat winch can really add to their utility, ebay has used ones for a song.
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CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Same here, I rarely use a capture since I rarely work alone. Also. Once you have a Maasdam continuous rope puller, the 5:1 set up rarely comes out of the bag. It becomes the go to.
You just place a porty at the base of the system and you can tie off the leg of the rope you are pulling as a back up.
You just place a porty at the base of the system and you can tie off the leg of the rope you are pulling as a back up.
Eric H-L
Treehouser
Cheap 3/8
rope I bought. Probably better to spend more and get 3/8 Samson Stable braid. I bought this to see how it was. They claim it is polyester. It is very slick. Nice tight outer jacket. It is a kernmantel not double braid.YUZENET Braided Polyester Arborist Rigging Rope (3/8 inch X 100 feet) High Strength Outdoor Rope for Rock Climbing Hiking Camping Swing, Blue/Orange/White https://a.co/d/51OQqxm
rope I bought. Probably better to spend more and get 3/8 Samson Stable braid. I bought this to see how it was. They claim it is polyester. It is very slick. Nice tight outer jacket. It is a kernmantel not double braid.YUZENET Braided Polyester Arborist Rigging Rope (3/8 inch X 100 feet) High Strength Outdoor Rope for Rock Climbing Hiking Camping Swing, Blue/Orange/White https://a.co/d/51OQqxm
stikine
Treehouser
And here I thought I was going to see some of those Beef Tamales. 🙄
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