Electric Chainsaw feedback

[Ed L]

The cordless tool evolution will continue. The tree and logging business isn't whats driving it. Sure, everyone makes a cordless chainsaw, Stihl & Husky are pushing them, they'll work for some, not everyone.
It's the construction industry thats the driving force, a cordless jobsite is a reality, driven in part by the insurance industry, extension cords are a trip hazard. Eliminate them and injuries go down, costs go down.

The tool mfgrs are hell bent to make every power tool known to man cordless.

Ed

 

[Canuck1]

I'll cut as little as possible in the tree, especially trunk wood, so using my climbing saw (dolmar 3410th) isn't the end of the world. The problem is my next saw is a dolmar 7910 i run either a 24 or 32 on it, usually 24 for most stuff. So i go from 35 cc to 80cc. I'm thinking a 50 cc would be about perfect, it's in the cards once i get some cash.

I have a new 5105 H it's gets more use than my 346 xp . Great 50 cc class saw at a very good price point . As for battery saws , a few yrs from having a practical , reliable electric saw in my opinion .

 

[Magnus]

I remember 30-35 years ago as cordless trimmers and mowers came. They are a bit better today, but not much. Its nothing new.
Neither was Strato engines or on saw grinders. They keep popping up with new twists and I guess many don't need more.

If you plan to do a day's work you need at least 6 of the 300 batteries. Not all can charge while working and as they take longer time to charge than reload its not very fun.
Its pretty pricey stuff compared to a 35cc saw and a can of gas...

Batteries have a good distance to travel in development until they are better than gas.

 

[Bart]

Was just cruising some videos and in a very recent vid Reg is still running his battery husky climbing saw. Call that a positive vote for that particular model. On fresh batteries it had reasonable grunt, but not high revving.

 

[Magnus]

Engine rev is irrellevant. Its chain speed that is in focus on saws.
Lower rev engin can have same speed as higher. Its more about transmission. If its above 20m/sek all is well regardless of top rpm..
Low revs is always better if possible.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Was just cruising some videos and in a very recent vid Reg is still running his battery husky climbing saw. Call that a positive vote for that particular model. On fresh batteries it had reasonable grunt, but not high revving.

Previous model Husky (536?) was okay up to 3 inch cuts for production pruning by my standards and doable for the occasional 10 inch cut. Current model T540i XP is great up to 12 inch cuts and still fine for 16 inch cuts in softwood. It's my new first choice saw for pruning and more.

Using the new 200x battery or the 300 - both delivering the higher power capabilities of the saw.

 

[Bart]

I cut a bit of stuff with an older friend a few years back and I had my 260 and I think his was an 034 or 038. The cut speed in the wood was similar but my motor buzzed high while his meated into the trunk. You could hear his revs really drop as the cut intensified, Visually I'd say my chain speed was higher, despite whatever sprocket sizing was present. My cut progress comparatively was crap unless I kept top rpms. Reg's saw was an exaggerated version of the 034/038 rpm droop because of the dc motor characteristic. And of course the Husky was power limited vs gas saws.

 

[Magnus]

Yes, keeping what ever rpm it cuts best in is important. The great chainsaw makers decide in creation of saw what rpm it will give most power in and going under that is not good. This hype of rpms is a thing I really don't understand. If you can choose were to have best power, high rpms is not smart.
Sounds cool and feels fun but also higher risks of breakdowns, harder to get good emissions etc.

Optimal chain speed and highest engine speed is not the same. Not all chains do well in high rpms, they all have limits.

 

[pantheraba]

That is an interesting concept, Magnus... One I had not been exposed to before. Thank you.

 

[Magnus]

Its one of those crazy things that becomes crystal clear when an Homelite from 60's outperform a modern saw in the cuts.
When you tear down, study and compare saws from 30's forward you see all kinds of stuff, good, bad often repeated over and over.
An uniqe isight of accumulated knowledge from all brands and models. Often discarded as jibberish.

 

[Frankie]

The chain is where the rubber meets the road on a chainsaw and should be the first thing to be addressed when the best possible cutting performance is desired ... Translation - learn how to properly sharpen your chain and when to stop cutting and touch it up ! When I will build a saw I want more torque which means I need more AIR thru the engine! Some makes/models/designs leave a lot of performance on the table whilst the newer “stratocharged” versions are more difficult to coax power from ... A properly modded saw will outcut a stocker by a noticeable amount with the same chain while not giving up longevity and running cool enough to not lose power to heat ... Also fuel economy will be excellent if the build is righteous - remember, the fastest saw is the one that cuts the MOST amount of wood using the LEAST amount of fuel ... In addition the built saw can run a more aggressive chain (angles , raker depth) that would bog/stall a stocker ... just my 2c

 

[Frankie]

Here is a video of an 064 (85cc) vs a 395xp (94cc) ... The 064 has a k/n filter with outerwears and is running 8 pin ... The 395xp is running 7 pin ... both 25” b/c stock STIHL RS chain ... The 064 was built by yours truly .... with all due respect to Magnus , I do not believe that a home light from 1960 (of similar cc) will best this 064! ...

 

[Nutball]

So you're comparing a ported 064 to a stock homelite in an electric thread.

 

[Frankie]

..... is that against company policy ?

 

[Bart]

I think chainsaw engine design runs a balance between outboard motor and peak power mx bike. Endless sustained torque vs short burst at bleeding rpm. I think thermal load at the piston is the limiting factor and thus also the cooling capability. Thermal masses can absorb bursts of heating but eventually the cooling has to limit the temperature or blop goes the metal. Snowmobiles balance peak vs meltdown because they get run across lakes. Many a woe has befelled overreaching sled tuners on cold days. I think there was a shift in the industry to max possible power from the lightest possible saws that resulted in saws like my 260. Sucks a bit down low and in the mid but wakes up when revved. This was an endless holy grail in mx bikes. Peaky bikes would walk away in the hands of a pro but mid grunt bikes were friendlier to ride to a tired pilot. Peaky (ported) saws will out cut mid grunt saws if you like hearing the bleeding edge rpm, but you have to get the cut just right to keep in the peak rpm by being an expert sawyer while the mid grunt saw doesn't care very much and just keeps tractoring away as you mis/mal adjust and fiddle your cut casually because your back's a bit sore, your knee hurts or whatever.

It's almost like flavour of the month, grunt vs peak unless you have strong preference. As an example a 300 cc boat motor is 15 hp, a 250 cc mx bike is 30 to 35 hp and a friend of mine's shifter cart was 250 cc and 85 hp. yup, peaky. Chains equal, power is king in speed of a cut. Big power also needs careful attention, maintenance and risk of running at the mechanical edge. It's a matter of degree too. Waking up a saw a little vs bone stock reliable forever is an attractive proposition for most guys.

To the original thread, dc motor saws are definitely at the tractor end of the spectrum.

Good discussion.

 

[Mick!]

Some interesting stuff there.

 

[Frankie]

Chainsaws are low in hp for the displacement as compared to say a Mx bike and similar to an outboard and I think that is by design. The manufacturer wants the saw (Or outboard) to run for a long time and they design the engine accordingly ... Granted an Mx bike is liquid cooled, piped and the cylinder / head / porting is far beyond the chainsaw or outboard not to mention the reed valves although some saws and outboards use reeds iirc ... a 65cc dirt bike motor can produce 17-20hp whereas a 70cc class chainsaw is around 6.0 depending on manufacturer. The chainsaws can be modded to give more performance in a lighter package if desired without jeopardizing longevity IF the mods are done correctly. I’m from the torque school of chainsaw building ... No gears to shift in a saw 😂 . Hp sells product ; Torque wins races

 

[Magnus]

Your in a battery saw thread.. HP is of no importance or Watts in engine.
There are no specs of this to be found. Quite odd as It would be hard to sell any other saws without power ratings.

 

[Bart]

There's two main aspects to an electric saw. Motor Watts/hp (including allowable duty cycle) and battery tech/management. Dc or brushless commutated dc motors have bottom torque because of back emf choking the works as rpm climb. Hence the tractor verdict. Batteries, aside from thermal overload (watch some Battlebots tv - smokin!) suffer from Puke-ert's law, ok Peukert's law you get the idea. If you double the amps drawn from a certain amp-hour battery you don't get half the run time, you get less than half. Conversely you can win by dropping the motor current and getting more run time than seems simply reasonable. RC racing guys have battled this dilemma for decades through various battery technologies, nicad, NiMh and now LiIon. So you can have a powerful sprint oriented saw or one that lasts much longer with either lower battery/saw weight or just longer useful on time. Flavour of the month type stuff again.

Y'all got the joke about the battery puke-ing? It always struck me as quite the coincidence with Peukert's name.

Thermal management, duty cycle and peaks mixed with reliability is an art unto itself. Throw in customer perception and you got a real quagmire.

Hp ratings on electric saws are sort of secret sauce because the motor output is thermally and duty cycle limited at a particular watts output so there's no standard to evaluate them for public advertising. E-bikes are the closest to having the info public but they still hold back too. Industrial motors are more transparently specced but not very cutting edge nor do they lead in performance and weight.