Don't forget your chaps!!

[squisher]

You know the southerners are gonna rise up B and say we don't know nuttin about Heat! Lol.

 

[Burnham]

Right you are Justin, we've seen that before, no?...and they can show their idjit azzes thataway if they think it wise .

 

[squisher]

lmao.

 

[Burnham]

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

B, most injuries are to the left thigh. This is why I asked if people were holding the side handle when they guys cut their chaps. The bottom of the chainsaw shouldn't rest on the leg. The side of the handle bar does. Too many people do this, resulting in so many minor, left thigh chap cuts from spinning down chains or saws pushed down by the work. This frequently means to me holding the saw in the wrong position. Like holding a hammer sideways.

 

[Burnham]

There are other scenarios that result in that cut, Sean...not to say you are wrong, but maybe are seeing it a bit too narrowly.

Many times that's the cut that results from a straight back kickback out of the kerf from a relatively minor tip touch or bind. Most right handers keep the left leg forward and brace with the right leg shifted back away from the work position. That left thigh is a big target for a quick push straight back.

To my mind, the same situation presents itself aloft for a climber, same reasons.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Some other nicks and stuff on my chaps, but as far as i can tell, I've only had one potentially very serious cut that fortunately my chaps prevented. As you say, Sean, right across the left thigh. End of the day tired and let the saw drag while limbing on top of a log. A somewhat frightening experience.

 

[Burnham]

You still need a new pair, Jay...since about 1998, if I recall right .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Ha. Someone is even waiting for my old ones. i told him that if he has to wait much longer they might be shorts. You are absolutely right, Burnham, and Stephen filled me in on what to get. Just been lazy. A promise before the end of the year. Thank you!

 

[Burnham]

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'd trade a 500 stitch chainsaw cut over having my foot crushed.

Seriously.

 

[Burnham]

No argument here.

 

[squisher]

No doubt. But I would wager that one serious cut Jay avoided would be worth a lifetime of wearing chaps. I've cut cutting pants up before big time but I've never had a stitch put in me due to a chainsaw cut. Knock on wood.

 

[woodslinger]

I climbed with chaps for 2 days and the buckle being under my waistbelt was awful.
I've been wearing the husqvarna pants for almost a year now, and they are ok most of the time. I've only climbed without the saw pants once since I got them, in the middle of a heat wave where I felt the extra heat would make me more likely to make several types of mistakes, versus the pants saving me from only one type of mistake. My only issue with the Husqvarna's is the elastic sections on the sides. They get pushed into my sides while aloft, never a distraction at the time, but its sore later and gets tender on a multi day job.
I'm thinking about getting the Pfanner vents, when income permits.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I put on some wet chaps over my rain gear yesterday for bucking down logs. The wrap-calf part made it worse.

I am more focused and precise without an 'insurance policy'. That's my own internal decision making process which is flawed.

The sagging, encumbered feeling didn't help me work safer/ better, IMO.

I prefer dry chaps under rain gear. I'll try on my Husky saw pants, which used to be too snug. The elastic is significant. They didn't skimp on that.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I'd trade a 500 stitch chainsaw cut over having my foot crushed.

Seriously.

I have a very clear workplace run. AVOID BEING WHERE YOU CAN BE CRUSHED!!!!!!! I have to remind people about this much more than DON'T TEAR THE SNOT OUT OF YOUR FLESHY PARTS WITH A CHAINSAW!! (including things like thumb-wrap on the handlebar).

I try to keep procedures simple, like 'Having a rope in your hand means start pulling, as much as putting a hammer in your hand means start pounding things randomly'.

 

[squisher]

If your wearing cutting pants you need suspenders. Espescially if they're going to get wet.

Chaps, I would only ever use them in times of miserable Heat, so they can be taken off without being nekkid. And scaring the customer.

 

[stig]

I am more focused and precise without an 'insurance policy'. That's my own internal decision making process which is flawed.
.

Not trying to be an asshole, here, Sean, but to me that sounds like the words of someone who shouldn't be running saws.

I've been sitting trying to gauge what my response would be if an apprentice said that.

So far, instant dismissal is the only thing, I can think of.

Honestly, our logging season is in winter, since hardwood logging when the leaves are still on the trees is no fun.
Used to be, we had nice frosty winters, but Global warming has put an end to that.
So now we log for months in the rain.
Get a nice pair of high quality saw pants ( I recommend Pfanner Vents) and wear them under your rain gear.
Sure you get clammy, but clammy is better than bleeding all over IMO.

I've been saved twice by saw pants, and I'm not the type who has numerous little cuts in his pants, I'm a careful, extremely experienced saw user.
But alas, shit happens to those, too.

If your pants sag, get a pair of suspenders from those two old loggers at "Better S-penders" in Oregon.
I recently got some, and they are the best I've EVER had.

 

[Burnham]

Stig writes exactly what I think on the subject...not so very uncommon an occurrence.

You're smarter than this, Sean.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Just to maybe better explain myself, not that I'm expecting to change any minds...

When I was trying to be better about the situation the other day, it was probably one of the greater scenarios of worst chap situation (heavy and wet) mixed with low risk cutting (there is certainly a spectrum, e.g., logs on the ground versus hung up, wind thrown trees).

I know I have fallen a lot more wearing chaps wading through brush, nearly fallen while walking on logs, getting snagged.

I think that there is a balancing point with PPE. Chaps and a cutting jacket in a tree on a hot day or add rain gear on a cold and wet day, you would have less chainsaw cuts, but probably more injuries from falls, gaffs, dehydration, dropping stuff on groundies. There is no free lunch. That's all.



Stig, my impression is that with your martial arts training, mixed with logging/ tree experience, you're a pretty precise cutter. Your first accident sounded like it might have been a while ago, pre throttle interlock and chain brake, maybe. Hand on the trigger maybe. Combo of problems, somewhat made "moot" for lack of the right word, by technology.

The cut while climbing was a bit of a "oh shit, this is someone I know to be solid, but shit happened to him, so, listen up, it could happen to me. The magic wears off."

Burnham, obviously, you have your own credentials to stand on.




Honestly, part of it is "bulletproof-ness" from working at State Parks where the "objective danger" (unavoidable danger) was so high, regardless of what we did to mitigate. We didn't have a blaster. Getting speared by big limbs coming down from 100' isn't helped by chaps. I would explain to people at State Parks that cutting myself with huge chainsaw (by that I mean 880 with a 60" bar max, or a 660 with a 36" bar, so frequently) ranked relatively low compared to being killed by the other factors in what we did. The guy in my position previously was LifeFlight'ed out. Obviously, chainsaws are potentially dangerous, but felling bad to terrible hazard trees day in and day out made me feel that I could control far more of the danger of that aspect than the others.

My closest calls to serious injury doing residential work was from groundies F'ing up. A face shield saved me from getting blasted in the face with chips when the groundie moved the chute, without training, and without reason, then didn't clamp the chute he shouldn't have touched, allowing the force of big top shoved in the chipper to suddenly spin the chute to where I was standing. The other time was not PPE, but dumb luck.


I guess similarly, my concern about cutting my leg is much outweighed by cutting my arm and bleeding out in a tree, or getting crushed by something. Do I consider a cutting jacket for climbing or kevlar arm sleeves, yes.

I wonder, amongst climbers, how many have cut themselves, or know of someone personally who have cut themselves on their upper body, but don't wear upper body protection.





Getting ideas out on the page sometimes helps me work things out in my head, or get good ideas, like Justin with suspenders and chaps.



As a side note, when I'm questioning people why they do things a certain way that is counter-intuitive to me, it might come off as challenging, but really its information seeking.

 

[squisher]

Up here chaps or cutting pants are the law for running saw. As in compo law. Without it you are risking big fines if caught and also ime it looks mighty unprofessional to the customer and could/would raise concerns with certain customer types over compliance and validity of comp coverage. Pros wear proper ppe, not just what and when it suits them.

Also a lot of saw cuts aren't going to come from the high risk scenarios, that sucka is gonna bite when least expected. Like the low risk scenarios where you might feel comfortable without ppe. Complacency breeds stitches.....or worse.

 

[stig]

You pretty much said it all there, Justin.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I'm not trying to convince you guys.

There is a spectrum of "risk acceptance" inherent in this trade, with very serious consequences.


Some rely on spur and lanyard only.
Some will cut without trying in twice.
Some will rely on ddrt to get them to the ground in an emergency, where anything snagging in and jamming rope, particularly somewhere of the ground, can stand the climber.

Some wear chaps/ saw pants on the ground only, as required of employees in the US.
Others, a saw jacket or arm pro of some kind.

Some will one-hand a top handle, others some times, some people never will.

Just interesting.

 

[Mick!]

I didn't wear them in the old days, now I wear them all the time. Especially climbing the padding offers more comfort.
Unless you're working in really crazy heat not wearing them is daft.

 

[squisher]

You can muddy the waters if you like Sean but the topic of this thread is chaps. Not chaps vs other risks taken in the trade.

Following your logic one could end up working naked with a taut line tied onto hardware store nylon rope.