Cutting heavy horizontal limbs

[Bermy]

In the heavy horizontal limb scenario, I will make a series of compression cuts, just deep enough to start feeling the pinch, then come in from the top, stagger the top cuts inbetween the compression cuts, starting from outboard, cut JUST enough to see the limb sag a little bit, come back to the next stagger, cut, etc...
By the time you get to the last cut, furthest inboard, a lot of the tension has been relieved...or at least spread out over a longer distance and the final release is easy. Even if the limb lets go early there are enough compression cuts to stop it tearing down
Face cut and top cut does get used too, depends on the tree.

Any time I do a snap cut I alway do the final cut INBOARD (or at least level) to stop saw snatch. I have had my saw snatched and there is NOTHING you can do but let go.

 

[MasterBlaster]

oops. It was a terminology oversight! kerf to me is the wood displaced by the saw. Kerf/face same thing? A better question may be, does it matter in this application if you make a "wedge" cut or just a kerf?

Never a "piecut/wedge" I want the limb to snap off and land flat.

A kerf cut is just the width of the chain/bar.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Thanks for the responses to the initial post. Obviously some trees or situations where relieving the weight would possibly be the best approach, there isn't the option to do that. It was the case yesterday and prompted the post, where the crown above had a lot of rot in it and was much reduced with no tie in points compared to what would have existed if the tree was more healthy. The Walnut was nearly dead standing, with the trunk and two opposing direction large lower limbs being quite solid.

With Jack's descriptive drawing about the general approach with the top cut, MB's remarks, it seems that taking a look at possible grain runout, might also be a factor in where you start that cut. A bit more forward (old way) might be wise.

 

[Altissimus]

...this is a specific problem that costs many rooks and DIY homeowners a bent ladder and a trip to the Emergency room

 

[sotc]

I'll usually do as your initial post. I'll usually cut those from above to make sure if won't hit me if it were to tear. As I start the side cut I'll actually roll over far enough to nip the bottom, finish cutting a third of the way through roll the saw 180 degrees back to my side and power through. The point of cutting the far side is so I have less wood to cut while powering through allowing me to cut faster and the nip is to prevent tearing

 

[Peter]

If I'm just smashing some big limbs off low down in the crown, maybe to prep for felling, rather than a full dismantle, I'll often take a mid size saw rather than a topper to speed up the cutting. 441 or 575 size, shortish bar and sharp.

 

[Mick!]

In the heavy horizontal limb scenario, I will make a series of compression cuts, just deep enough to start feeling the pinch, then come in from the top, stagger the top cuts inbetween the compression cuts, starting from outboard, cut JUST enough to see the limb sag a little bit, come back to the next stagger, cut, etc...
By the time you get to the last cut, furthest inboard, a lot of the tension has been relieved...or at least spread out over a longer distance and the final release is easy. Even if the limb lets go early there are enough compression cuts to stop it tearing down
Face cut and top cut does get used too, depends on the tree.

Any time I do a snap cut I alway do the final cut INBOARD (or at least level) to stop saw snatch. I have had my saw snatched and there is NOTHING you can do but let go.

Hi Bermy, are you saying that (as I have read elsewhere) that on large horizontals you unclip the saw?

 

[pantheraba]

I unclip the saw..often clip it to the limb. If it gets snatched the lanyard catches it. I do the same for tops...take a few seconds to attach the saw to the top of the spar, below the felling cut somewhere. If a saw gets snatched I don't want the saw snatching on me. If something has been miscalculated so that the saw gets snatched there may already be other (uncalculated) stuff going on that I don't need the additional distraction of a saw stuck in a limb or top trying to pull me out of the tree.

 

[MarcM]

I work mostly in hardwood, so take that as you will... when bombing down a heavy horizontal limb, I'll either cut it at the trunk if I can or piece it out. Cutting at trunk - lanyard in above the limb, then a coos bay as follows-. make a kerf on the underside not too deep (situationally dependent). As I finish the undercut kerf I'll scribe the saw under/around to the far side, to give a kerf on the far side for alignment, if it's big enough. Then I'll use that kerf and make a vertical cut on the far side about 1/3 dia. Scribe over the top to the near side and make another cut about 1/3 in. Now there shouldn't be any sapwood left to tear but I'll still nick the sides a few inches back just to be safe. Then I come down from the top full throttle. The scribing ensures I make the whole cut perfectly in a single plane. Disclaimer - this is what I'll do, not what I advise anyone else to do. If it's dangerous or there's better practice, I'm all ears and eager to learn.

 

[Peter]

It obviously hasn't killed you yet, so you must be doing something right!

 

[Tucker943]

I unclip the saw..often clip it to the limb. If it gets snatched the lanyard catches it. I do the same for tops...take a few seconds to attach the saw to the top of the spar, below the felling cut somewhere. If a saw gets snatched I don't want the saw snatching on me. If something has been miscalculated so that the saw gets snatched there may already be other (uncalculated) stuff going on that I don't need the additional distraction of a saw stuck in a limb or top trying to pull me out of the tree.

Why not just not clip the saw to anything. If that saw were to get snatched somehow, the safest bet is to part ways with the saw entirely.

 

[PCTREE]

I am never tethered to my saw when its in use. Haven't dropped one in years and is safer IMO (for the climber at least)

 

[HolmenTree]

I always have a Buckingham break away bungee lanyard on my saw, have owned about 4 over the years....never had to break apart one.
As a matter of fact Bermy has my 3rd one......

 

[cory]

But as a general rule, the best advice IMO is not to lanyard into heavy laterals if you're going to relieve in one cut. Depending on how far out on it you are, relieving that weight with one cut almost invariably will result in you being bounced about like you are lanyarded onto a diving board.

Ha, that happened to me on a long tulip limb. Definetly not something I would like to experience again.

 

[Tucker943]

I always have a Buckingham break away bungee lanyard on my saw, have owned about 4 over the years....never had to break apart one.
As a matter of fact Bermy has my 3rd one......

Breakaways are cool. But my point why tether it to the tree? If its a breakaway, your saw is going to the ground anyhow. So why attach the saw to the tree knowing you'll be in need of both a new saw and a new breakaway. If it isn't a breakaway but rather some sort of rigid tether, then you enter a whole new ballgame of bad outcomes if the saw stays in the kerf as the top goes over. I picture a saw tearing apart with violent force right beside my body. If one wants to prevent dropping a saw, then a breakaway tether makes perfect sense. If one is using a tether in the event of the saw staying with the wood as it leaves, they ought to really think that over. If I had any worries about the saw leaving the tree with the wood, I'd want that thing free and clear and connected to nothing. If its going out of the tree, then its going out of the tree.

 

[HolmenTree]

I hang my climb saw and breakaway lanyard on a large aluminum Kong non lock biner embedded in my saddle. Free end ring of lanyard onto a accessory snap, actually the brass snap would probably break before the lanyard would..

 

[Tucker943]

No I understand the purpose of your breakaway. I used to use one.

 

[Bermy]

I've had the 361 go twice, once not too high up, once on the ground doing windblow.
The 200 is always tethered to me with a breakaway...Willard yours is still going strong!
I've had one breakaway, breakaway, but only to the point that the white bit came unravelled from inside the black cover, but it reduced any pull just fine, actually it happened when I had to dump the saw in hurry during a takedown, had to get two hands on the section quick. The breakaway deployed because I basically dropped it instead of just running the strap through my hand.
I'd rather have that option than see my expensive 200 go all the way to the ground.

 

[pete mctree]

I was told that the traditional outboard style step cut was from the days of cross cut saws & low powered chain saws. Over cutting & having the saw go with the cut was not an option in most cases & the only worry was splitting the limb due to too small an undercut.
Modern saws have changed how we cut

 

[Mick!]

I find the practice of completely un clipping thousands of quids worth of saw bizarre. As has been suggested if in doubt clip it to the tree it self, if the saw does snag and the branch has a really significant weight the bar will bend and free it self. New bar maybe but power unit intact.
This happened to me with a husky 288 on an oak branch, bar was twisted beyond use, the saw was clipped into me, slightly sore hip but ok. In hindsight I would have clipped it to the branch. As long as the lanyard is in the handle the saw will turn in the cut and will pull out nose tip last, even if the weight has to bend the guide to get it out.
If the saw is clipped into the branch it is cutting ( behind the cut obviously) what can go wrong?
If an employee comes back to the yard saying the big saw is trashed 'cos I un clipped it and it followed the branch to the ground.....I don't think many bosses would be happy, or consider it to be anything but carelessness.

 

[Tucker943]

I was beating around the bush, but i'll just be straight forward. If you are leashing your saw to something because you are worried about it getting caught in the kerf and going for a ride, you might be better to get out of the tree until you've got your cutting skills refined.

I GET THE POINT of a breakaway lanyard. They make perfect sense if dropping the saw is a possibility. MY POINT, is that using one in preparation of a saw getting stuck and going for a ride means its time to repel down and rethink some technique. Saws staying in kerfs and coming out of the tree isn't something a pro should be doing.

 

[Mick!]

There are lots of things that shouldn't happen but do, even down to pinching a saw in a cut or touching a stone on the ground, taking a few quick precautions (that doesn't involve dumping a thousand pounds worth of saw from a great height)
Isn't an admission of lack of technique.

 

[Tucker943]

Pinching a saw or dulling a chain is inconsequential. Improper cutting technique aloft is one way to die or cause property damage.

 

[Tucker943]

A breakaway lanyard breaks. Meaning it doesn't even keep the saw in the event a great deal of weight pulls down on it. Soooooo, whats the point?

 

[Mick!]

They both represent improper cutting technique, the only difference is location and consequence.
If you can get it wrong on the ground, you can get it wrong up a tree. And who hasn't pinched a saw?