lumberjack
Young man on the go
Gary was also transitioning from the old school hitches to the newer hitches and didn't want to bullet butt out of the tree due to one not functioning properly.
climbing on two friction hitches
- Thread starter pantheraba
- Start date
- Replies 59
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gf beranek
Old Schooler
Bullet Butt!
It wasn't that long ago I made the switch to a VT. And haven't regretted it since. But I will admit some sketchy feelings when relying on it at first. I found out quickly the number of wraps it takes to function properly,, between cord and line combination's.
Now I use it with the same confidence I had with the old school systems I used in the past.
It wasn't that long ago I made the switch to a VT. And haven't regretted it since. But I will admit some sketchy feelings when relying on it at first. I found out quickly the number of wraps it takes to function properly,, between cord and line combination's.
Now I use it with the same confidence I had with the old school systems I used in the past.
W
Wagnaw
Guest
You know. Beddes Strasser is starting to advocate using two climbing hitches. ...but each hitch is on it's own leg of the rope.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Good for you Gary, ensuring your own safety while learning new techniques.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
Thanks, Squishy...not wanting to be a bullet butt is exactly what was going on.
I had a bit of trouble getting Beddes to listen closely to me...glad to see he is coming around.
Hey, realtreeslayer...my step from end-of-line tautline to a split tail Blake's was THE biggest step of all...using a split tail made a huge difference in transitioning past limbs as I climbed up and was a perfect start on catching up to the modern age of ropework. "High-tech redneck" is cool.
treesandsurf
Treehouser
B
Bounce
Guest
This is what I love about this business: no matter how good a climber you are or how sophisticated your system, there is always something new to learn.
Steve Sillett is making the "motion lanyard" famous, which uses 2 friction hitches. Basically, it's a short climbing line (40-80 ft) in which both ends get used like a 2-in-1 flipline. Each end gets it's own Blake's hitch (or VT or whatever) tied with a split tail. The advantage is supposed to be that you have 2 climbing lines without having to carry all the weight. The downside seems to be that the belly of the line dangles down and can catch falling branches.
Steve Sillett is making the "motion lanyard" famous, which uses 2 friction hitches. Basically, it's a short climbing line (40-80 ft) in which both ends get used like a 2-in-1 flipline. Each end gets it's own Blake's hitch (or VT or whatever) tied with a split tail. The advantage is supposed to be that you have 2 climbing lines without having to carry all the weight. The downside seems to be that the belly of the line dangles down and can catch falling branches.
The motion lanyard sounds like tying in with the tail of your climbing line, which was standard practice in the 60's, before I had heard of a lanyard. I did see one fellow who had learned in Europe use this technnique in the early 80's. The Russians I climbed with in Moscow used a system similar to what you describe also, but it was a long lanyard cinched around the tree and using ascenders and descenders for moving around.
As you say, an interesting variety.
As you say, an interesting variety.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Never heard of, or seen, the motion lanyard in use, but suspect it's a split-tail system on both sides. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've imagined times where the likes of which would be of some benefit, but through all the years not quite enough to warrant following through with the idea.
I would be entertained to see it demonstrated.
I've imagined times where the likes of which would be of some benefit, but through all the years not quite enough to warrant following through with the idea.
I would be entertained to see it demonstrated.
Gary, Glad you finally got all that figured out. That was a fairly elaborate setup you had for awhile.
I am somewhat at a loss why some old timers have so much difficulty switching to a newer, less energy requiring system. Honestly climbing since 1969 and like most others, we started with an old Dodge pickup and some real crap equipment. But even back then, I would never have dreamt of using 3-strand manila for a climbing line. I did have manila flip lines, but they had steel cores.
I would never recommend going up a tree with an untried knot. Learn how to tie it. Tie, Dress and Set. And just play with it at low levels for awhile until you either make the decision to use it or not. If it makes your life easier and you are confident you are tying it correctly and it is of a configuration others are using successfully, what's to fear?
The switch for me to newer techniques was no harder than picking up a new saw that's lighter weight, more horse power, faster chain speed with less vibration than what I had been using...guess which saw I'm going to use? I don't even have to think about it. I feel the same with my climbing setup. I don't use every little gadget out there but there are a few that will make your life easier.
But I make darned sure I know how to use the stuff to my satisfaction before adding a chainsaw to the picture.
Dave
I am somewhat at a loss why some old timers have so much difficulty switching to a newer, less energy requiring system. Honestly climbing since 1969 and like most others, we started with an old Dodge pickup and some real crap equipment. But even back then, I would never have dreamt of using 3-strand manila for a climbing line. I did have manila flip lines, but they had steel cores.
I would never recommend going up a tree with an untried knot. Learn how to tie it. Tie, Dress and Set. And just play with it at low levels for awhile until you either make the decision to use it or not. If it makes your life easier and you are confident you are tying it correctly and it is of a configuration others are using successfully, what's to fear?
The switch for me to newer techniques was no harder than picking up a new saw that's lighter weight, more horse power, faster chain speed with less vibration than what I had been using...guess which saw I'm going to use? I don't even have to think about it. I feel the same with my climbing setup. I don't use every little gadget out there but there are a few that will make your life easier.
But I make darned sure I know how to use the stuff to my satisfaction before adding a chainsaw to the picture.
Dave
SkwerI
Treehouser
My apologies, Gary. Once again I have proven that I fail at communication and/or interaction with others. 
lumberjack
Young man on the go
And that you're overly hard on yourself?
OTGBOSTON
punk in drublic
With a post like Dave's, it almost makes me want to start a "lets get MB hooked up new school" thread.....
I've got an extra 150' of bluestreak with a splice to start
I've got an extra 150' of bluestreak with a splice to start
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Today there's only a few old climbers still kicking their spurs that I started with in the business,,, back in the latter 60's. And the few that are still climbing are using what they learned on. It works for them.
I'm not any younger than those guys, but I have adapted most of the new school ways. Still I rely on old school techniques quite a bit.
There's a time and place for everything.
I'm not any younger than those guys, but I have adapted most of the new school ways. Still I rely on old school techniques quite a bit.
There's a time and place for everything.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
With a post like Dave's, it almost makes me want to start a "lets get MB hooked up new school" thread.....
Let's not and say we did.
lumberjack
Young man on the go
With a post like Dave's, it almost makes me want to start a "lets get MB hooked up new school" thread.....
I've got an extra 150' of bluestreak with a splice to start
You haven't been around long enough, we done tried at least twice.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Never to old to learn something. Whether one uses it or not is another thing.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
When you get old, it isn't so much the learning that's the problem, it's the forgetting what you've learned :roll:
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
i think panthebera is jest riding out the L-eraning curve, by allowing fascinationa nd over implementation, to then calm down inside of more normal means that are expanded, and ghave more to draw from as ye go on. The dble lanyard hitch, with self tending hitches actually sonds like TomD's DeDa (Dbl. Ended Dbl Adjsuting) Lanyard style
The guys you know who are still climbing with what they learned on...does that mean primarily spur work? If so, I can certainly understand that. My spur work has not changed other than having a real easy-to-adjust flipline.
If you are saying that they are still squirreling around the trees on the end of a rope, I don't know how they do it. I guess I am in better-than-average shape for my age, but I certainly don't have the strength I had when I was 25. Forty or 50 ft unsecured footlock climbs were an every day occurrance. Fairly acrobatic moves with supporting my body weight with one arm were no problem. Well, those things aren't going to happen again. I switched over because I wanted to keep doing what I am doing. And I needed to figure out how to accomplish that.
There is a time and place for everything.
Dave
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I just need to lose my gut. I'm strong, like Bull! 
pantheraba
More biners!!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #47
Kenny, you are 100% right...I was overwhelmed by all the possibilities that existed to try...reading about VT's and all the variants was mind-blowing. I was doing it from reading Jepson and Mahk Adams (over on the Buzz) and such and working to understand what guys on these forums were talking about..it was one thing to read it, quite another to bring it into the 3D world and hope it worked. The first (and only real) tree company I worked for was about 1972 or 73...the lead climber taught me how to tie and use a tautline from 40 feet below me...I usually rappelled down on a biner. He shouted up how to tie the knot and talked me into riding it (what an idiot I was). I remember very well how unnatural it was to have to let go of that knot to stop my descent; totally bassackwards my instincts told me. That experience helped put me in the mindset of a serious backup when I started evolving to non-tautline hitches.
Brian, no problemo here, I just got my knickers knotted up for a minute...it's led to some good discussion which is what I wanted in the first place. Keep on being Skwerly...izz OK with me.
OTGBOSTON
punk in drublic
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Nope, just satisfied!
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I dunno.... looking at people working in trees in still photos, it's like pretty much that most climbers look similar, in a sense...
MB's photos, he looks to have his own very distinctive style, and it looks real strong. It's cool and impressive to see.
MB's photos, he looks to have his own very distinctive style, and it looks real strong. It's cool and impressive to see.
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