Champion Trees

RegC said:
We're not in control of mother nature... But we are in control of the chainsaws, yarders, and helicopters....and above all else, our minds and bodies...

So, to come to a place like the West coast, more specifically BC, and witness such a unique, natural wonder and treasure being eliminated for short term currency, is simply astonishing. Id put it on par with placing a series of friggin' huge oil rigs right through the centre of Australia's Great Barrier Reef.
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Reg, awesome post, brotha.

Saddening, but awesome.
 
Burnham said:
So are there just no regulations governing timber harvest practices or requiring reforestation in BC, Reg?
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I fully presume there are but perhaps Canada is too adept at running roughshod over their embarrassment of riches.

Warning Warning: Posts like this coincided with Squish's recent prolonged departure. Don't leave, Squish:cry:
 
Thanks Burnham. For some reason i thought replanting had to be undertaken within 2 years. I read it somewhere but cant now find the document. But thats either way off, or simply being ignored.....because theres whole hilsides of 10-15 year old cuts, which has neither been replanted nor regenetated. With logging roads punched through the middle, they often take a closer resemblemce to a waterfall in a quarry, than part of a forest. Throw in a few landslides and in my uniformed opinion I think you'd call that a fail. Id like to read the book you mentioned, thanks. But I also trust my eyes to recognise a goldrush mentality, followed by abandonment. Theres a ton of land for sale now between Sooke and Port renfrew for example Hundreds of acres that the logging companies have exhausted but now want rid off. No replanting, just stumps. Some areas are being natuarlly colonized by Alder and Willow. Garbage trees.

There is no special designation or protection of Old growth forest....unless theyre within a provincial park etc. If theyre included within an area covered by a tree farm licence, theyre history pretty much.

The image below shows Canada's 2nd largest remaining Doug fir (that they know of). I was interested to read an article in a newspaper giving high praise the forest engineer who singled it out for retention when the surrounding old growth stand was clearcut about 4 years back. But when I spoke to galling company who worked that site, they explained that the only reason the tree is still stood was because it more trouble than it was worth to remove. It was spared because there wasnt enough $ to be made from the work involved.
1965082_735490313150492_843822106_n.jpg
Big_Lonely_Doug_Clearcut-61.jpg
 
RegC said:
We're not in control of mother nature, Mario. But we are in control of the chainsaws, yarders, and helicopters....and above all else, our minds and bodies.
Those pics that your post, of the redwood groves etc.....same or similar areas that was in Jerrys most recent book. What would you say if were all suddenly condemned to being clearcut ? I sort of doubt your reaction would be "hmmmm, mother natures done worse. so be it

Good posts Burnham, Jerry and Stig, from a harvesters perspective. If Id walked in your shoes through the years, I could only hope to be as conscientious and optimistic.

Its actually a little more than a few acres of clearcutting here Jerry. In 2016 for example they cut near 1100 hectares of Old Growth and Vancouver island alone. That figure doesn't include the second growth clear-cuts, nor the stats for the rest of BC. In a region where 75% of the Virgin forest has already been logged, including 90% of the valley bottoms....10-1100 hectares per year is criminal. Or at least, that's how I view it. You see, I originate from a country where there is no Virgin forest....let alone that of giants which have been evolving in the PNW for thousands of years.

The landscape that you see through much of the UK is manufactured or altered by man. We used to have wolves, bears, lynx and very long list of wildlife inhabitants throughout at one time, much like BC....but they obviously vanished as their habitats were destroyed and what then remained were hunted to extinction.

So, to come to a place like the West coast, more specifically BC, and witness such a unique, natural wonder and treasure being eliminated for short term currency, is simply astonishing. Id put it on par with placing a series of friggin' huge oil rigs right through the centre of Australia's Great Barrier Reef.

But put the money worshiping corporations aside....the majority of the residents here simply don't care enough or don't care at all....as is evident by their absence in the forest, and presence in the malls, consuming. Those that do care enough to stand up and protest government policy are often branded eco weirdos and sometimes even thrown in jail protesting....simply because they dont uphold the belief that the main value of a forest ecosystem is as a saw logs, sold to china. Consider though, that I'm a relatively recent immigrant here at 7 years. Maybe in another 10 Ill become so desensitised to it that I wont give a frig either.
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Fantastic post Reg!
 
Well of the governments share of the land in BC of approx 860,000hectares they claim that over 500,000hectares of that is protected. So I don't think it's just in parks, there's reserves, habitat areas etc etc. The numbers may and probably do read differently on Vancouver Island I have no doubts of that. To say it's just a all out free for all is just not true. I'm not trying to argue that high value forests like big old growth aren't squarely in the targets of industry, but there are checks and measures.

Not to worry Cory. I'm finding this thread very interesting.

I would point out that Canada is a resource extraction country, we could never consume ourselves all the resources we extract. We sell to the highest bidders and I think it would be fair to say that the good ole USA consumes a lot of our resources. I remember 'arguing' with Carl years back about who produces more lumber Canada or the USA and was kind of shocked to learn that the USA does indeed produce more lumber than us, but a good chunk of that lumber is produced with our logs. So it's not really as simple as saying the Canadians run roughshod around their own regulations. Weyerhaeuser was the largest mill and TFL(timber forest license) holder in my area for probably 30-40years. They only pulled out when supply started to dwindle, hurting profitability.

I was born and raised in BC, worked all over the province north to south. It is such a huge part of our economy I've always said, logging won't stop until there are no more trees. That is the only thing that will stop it, when there's no money left in it. Never is the government or the people going to step up and say ok enough is enough let's just stop this and devastate our economy. Never going to happen. Fringe protestors and a certain number of people will always be against it, it's been that way my whole life. They've accomplished not much at all that I'm aware of. A spec of big ole oldgrowth here or there are protected, while as Reg points out the logging rages on.

It's no different than any other problem the planet faces. People aren't fixing things, we are consuming and destroying things at an ever increasing rate. There is no cure to human greed, we've always been this way as far as I can tell. Technology is just letting us get better and better at it.

Anyone ever recall me mentioning how much I hate feller bunchers? Or my descriptions of how logging has gone in my short lifetime?

The planet is doomed and we will ride it into the future burning oblivion.
 
Technology has really stepped up to take the game to all new levels. If you don't have a seven or eight axle logging truck here, you go broke. Five axle log trucks are a novelty antique item in these parts. A handfaller used to cut upwards of 3 five axle log trucks a day to make a damn good living, now a feller bunchers is pushing out 10 7-8 axle loads a day and the guy operating it makes half as much money as the unemployed handfaller used to make. It goes on and on and on. All those pics of huge grapple skidders, processors, bunchers, forwarders etc etc etc. Have all just made big business more and more money, while putting more guys on the bottom end out of work.

Loggers used to make a great living here just one generation ago. Now if you log, you'd be lucky to ever afford a home in these parts and the only new truck you're probably ever going to drive is the companies. Like a bad joke.
 
Justin, question for you. I dont know if theres a definite answer that you can offer, and if not no worries, but here goes. What is it to be a Canadian ? What do stand for. What do you value. Youve just summerized that money is much more important than the land you live on and the air you and your family breath as a generalization of the majority.

Every country has a history and blood on their hands, but current Canadian culture, ambition and contentment is still somewhat of a mystery to me. Thanks
 
I'll try to answer as best I can Reg. I'm proud to be a Canadian but I'm not always proud of what my countrymen do. I guess the best I can do is answer with another question. Do you feel that Canadians are unique in their quest for wealth over environment? Seems it's universal to me. You spoke of leaving a land that has already destroyed everything natural that it ever had. I see Canada as just a younger version and with a plethora of natural resources. I have a general dislike of people for the most part. I find that my moral compass is not aligned with most people I meet.

That being said I'm just trying to do the best I can for my family and myself, as I'm sure many feel. When you get down to the nuts and bolts of it I have no help, no safety net, no support from anyone else. I guess part of that reality makes me a little hard. I'll cut a few trees if it insures a roof over my families head. I have no hope in humanity whether they be Canadian or otherwise.

In the end I'm just blundering through, like we all are.
 
Burnham said:
.. You have to understand forest ecology to get this, but it ain't rocket surgery, I promise :). Selective harvests eventually convert the stand to shade tolerant species. If that isn't obvious, ask and I'll explain.
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What a great post, Burham. I would like to take you up on this statement, however. I believe that I have a better than average understanding of how complex systems work and the only way I can see this happening is by using a faulty plan.
 
It's similar to another discussion we've butted heads on Dave. You choose to believe industry and the governments take on things, who obviously have a vested interest. Instead of the overwhelming evidence that points to the contrary.
 
How many of you have walked into a forest that has never seen an axe, saw, skidder, cat, or yarder and proceeded to mow every tree in sight down?

How many of you have stood in the middle a clear cut the size of a small city/town, knowing you participated in the devastation?

I can tell you neither is anything to be proud of.
 
Just a term Dave the 'butting heads'. I do always enjoy your input, even if we don't agree. I respect your views and your levelheaded responses. I dare say a lot more levelheaded then I am at times. I may have been called a bit of a hothead once or twice in my days.

:)
 
Having worked in the industry and growing up in a town that had three mills inside the village limits I have seen the forests being managed much more than Reg describes seeing in his area of southern Vancouver Island. I also worked the west coast of VI from north to south and have seen massive valley wide clear cuts where little has re-grown planted or otherwise, massive landslides and basic total destruction of the ecosystem. It's hard to believe the industry and governments account of things when you've witnessed first hand mindboggling destruction. Pretty much anywhere in BC I've been as soon as you step out of the visible corridor the logging and clearcutting is impossible to 'miss'.

In my lifetime I've watched the government slowly slip more and more of the responsibility onto the industry instead of government foresters overseeing you have company foresters overseeing. Wolves in sheeps clothing essentially. Timber supply is dwindling. Despite how industry would like you to believe otherwise it does hit the news now and then about such and such mill, closing or not rebuilding after a fire due to no supply left in the area. Five big mills in my area have been reduced to one. And they constantly haul further and further to access and supply. So pushing into more and more remote areas, logging watersheds, etc, etc. I heard it on the news once or twice a couple of years ago that the 'long term' plan is to start logging more and more visible corridors as supply runs out. It's pretty amazing if you fly over any part of our province, the highways are like a green snake through the hills/mountains and just outside of that visible corridor it is a patchwork of massive clearcuts. I have no doubts a perusal of google earth of BC would be interesting to many.

The government and industry skew their numbers, protecting lots and lots of low value timber land that no one would probably ever log anyways. It's often debated, what is old growth? Only big majestic trees? What about scrubby old growth?
 
I was reading about a German forestry department that has operated with the same game plan and with out a hitch for the last 800 years. that would include before Germany even. through the Weimar, the Nazis, the communists and the reunited era. all these massive political changes and the operation and care of the forest is continued. That is one story of forest maintenance, the other is when the decisions are made by wall street and far removed from any tree. . There is no such thing as "forests untouched by man". The managing of forests by stock traders thogh is a recent development. Michigan was razed to the ground by them. the forest that has grown back is shitty. Some people see a beautiful michigan. I see an environmentally devastated wasteland. There are a few pockets of nice forest. but overall pretty meh. the big trees are found in urban areas or just a few pockets where there was importance to people. you don't go out to the six to find big trees in Michigan. a few acres here and there is all. There was no regard to any future at l when they laid waste to Michigan. It was turned into profit and they moved on to Wisconsin. The forest needs managing but that can't be dictated with a monetary and political mindset.

It seems like clearcutting a forest is similar to topping a tree. Followed by intense rampant growth as well as decay massive interuption of vital functions. I walked through a clear cut in Oregon and it was crazy with big leaf maples and those had been cut down and other trees had been planted but the big leaf maples had rebounded so high and there was so many of them. I was just overwhelmed by how much work that would be to guide that forest where you wanted. surely possible but it seemed a process. I would like to hear more about that Burnham.
 
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