Planting trees

[stikine]

Root tips turned upwards rather than straight down. It can potentially cause girdling, yes; also just being too shallow, roots dry out more easily causing seedling mortality; also can lead to a condition called "planting shock" wherein the seedling fails to thrive because it is planted in a far different orientation that it was raised in; also long-term inhibition of well-developed root system can lead to blowdown as the tree grows.

The term comes from the roots being planted in the shape of a J.

Thanks B.

 

[Kaveman]

Root tips turned upwards rather than straight down. It can potentially cause girdling, yes; also just being too shallow, roots dry out more easily causing seedling mortality; also can lead to a condition called "planting shock" wherein the seedling fails to thrive because it is planted in a far different orientation that it was raised in; also long-term inhibition of well-developed root system can lead to blowdown as the tree grows.

The term comes from the roots being planted in the shape of a J.

I've heard tell that the saplings have a cardinal orientation as well, meaning they have a North and South side, and do best when planted with that in mind.

Old wives tale, or an example of planting shock?

Excuse of a bad landscaper/nursery?

 

[lxskllr]

The universe is subtle and weird. I wouldn't be surprised if plants had polarity. Almost seems a little far fetched, but it would be an interesting experiment if someone wanted to put the time in.

 

[Kaveman]

The universe is subtle and weird. I wouldn't be surprised if plants had polarity. Almost seems a little far fetched, but it would be an interesting experiment if someone wanted to put the time in.

To clarify, it's not so much a polarity thing as much as geotropism, or perhaps I should have described it as an East and West side.
As if the plant is spacially oriented on both longitude and latitude, and must maintain that orientation for the best chance of survival.

Again, that's how it was described, perhaps I failed the first time lol. I don't know how much stock I put into it, but it's interesting to think about.

 

[stikine]

When you think about how many thousands of trees are planted each year it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense about polarity being a major factor for survival. Maybe that's just the sceptic in me coming out?

 

[lxskllr]

I'm thinking it would be a case of optimization if anything. IOW, trees planted according to their seedling position would do slightly better than trees planted in an arbitrary position, but all trees would tend to survive.

 

[SeanKroll]

Impact of orientation changes might depend on the extremity of the climate and sun. Never heard of it.

Some cacti are marked when dug to allow them to be planted for the same orientation.

 

[Treeaddict]

Link to a post of mine with some tree planting pics.

Tree felling vids

Mr. Burnham, did you work on a BAER team? Or was it part of your regular job?

www.masterblasterhome.com

And a description of the work.

Tree felling vids

:thumbup: looked fun. Nice setup also Scott. Your using a drill in a gcrs correct?

www.masterblasterhome.com

What’s the survival rate, Burnham? Does the fire help the soil?

 

[Burnham]

@Treeaddict Survival ranges from well over 90% to a little under 70%, usually. I have seen it be as high as 99%, and as low as 55%. Replants/interplants happen if the numbers of surviving healthy crop trees per acre are too low, like less than 250/acre or so here where I live. For comparison, full plantability (never happens, that would be 8'x8' spacing with no unplantable spots) is 680 tpa. Anything over 525tpa is considered very good numbers. 475 is likely a reasonable average over many years and thousands of acres planted.

The question of whether fire helps or hurts soil productivity is a complex one, often debated. Lots of variables impact the answer. How hot the burn, how much or little organic component is left after. Aspect affects ground temps if no shade exists after a burn, steepness affects erosion, etc. It can be hard to quantify.

 

[Kaveman]

@Treeaddict Survival ranges from well over 90% to a little under 70%, usually. I have seen it be as high as 99%, and as low as 55%. Replants/interplants happen if the numbers of surviving healthy crop trees per acre are too low, like less than 250/acre or so here where I live. For comparison, full plantability (never happens, that would be 8'x8' spacing with no unplantable spots) is 680 tpa. Anything over 525tpa is considered very good numbers. 475 is likely a reasonable average over many years and thousands of acres planted.

The question of whether fire helps or hurts soil productivity is a complex one, often debated. Lots of variables impact the answer. How hot the burn, how much or little organic component is left after. Aspect affects ground temps if no shade exists after a burn, steepness affects erosion, etc. It can be hard to quantify.

So what exactly causes the 'glazing' I've heard so much about, like in California?

That is if you know B, I understand if that's out of your wheelhouse.

 

[Burnham]

I'm not familiar with the term, if it relates to wildfire effect on soils.

I have heard it applied to the effect a shovel or planting hoe can have on the sides of a planting hole. Smoothing the sides of the hole with the blade of the planting tool inhibits moisture transfer and can be detrimental to survival. But I don't know that this is what you're on about.

 

[Burnham]

I found this sentence in a website about wildfire restoration:

"..., the extreme heat also "glazes" the surface of the soil, literally melting the surface which causes the soil to repel water. The soil becomes hydrophobic."

I have seen this, but not heard the term. We just called it "hydrophobic soils" caused by heat from fire. Very dry weather spells can produce a similar condition, but that will break down with enough moisture over time.

 

[Kaveman]

I'm not familiar with the term, if it relates to wildfire effect on soils.

I have heard it applied to the effect a shovel or planting hoe can have on the sides of a planting hole. Smoothing the sides of the hole with the blade of the planting tool inhibits moisture transfer and can be detrimental to survival. But I don't know that this is what you're on about.

No, "they" said that the heat glazed the soil, causing water to run off without soaking in.

I bring it up because I'm skeptical, having done pottery work, and that was the connotation when they said glaze.

Edit:
Crap, shoulda read the banner before I posted.

Thanks B!

 

[Kaveman]

Sorry @Burnham. I've been depression drinking again, so I'm not altogether with it at the moment.

I'm actually somewhat familiar with the term "hydrophobic soils" at least in the drought sense of the term, I am from the desert after all.

Not sorry for not googling it. The best way to learn about life is from someone who's lived it. Not a zotbox, like so many seem to think.

 

[Burnham]

No worries on my end, Kave. Take care.

 

[SeanKroll]

Soil can become more vitreous, I believe...glass- like from hi temp fire. Silica particles from sand melting, I think.

Some old words from fuel-reduction work days.