Depends on the crane ime. I'm not trying to claim knowledge of crane work on trees at all btw. However, I've worked under a crane most of my career, and am fairly familiar with using them all day every day. I've worked under everything from baby Brodersons to 300 ton plus, lattice and hydraulic, and everything is different as far as capacities go. I've also done extensive rigging with tuggers, chain falls, digging equipment, etc. However, as far as crane cycle times go, until you have about 4 part line, I've never even noticed a difference in cycle times, enough to even come close to waiting because of line speeds. You still have to swing slowly in order to not cause swinging loads, and then you just have cable work, which can greatly be sped up using throttle. If you have a crane, you are usually going to use the capacity you have, so a few more parts line will speed up heavy operations close, while not really slowing stuff down at reach, as long as the capacities don't drop due to block weight. Once again, my experience working construction.
August Hunicke Videos
- Thread starter August Hunicke
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MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Two part = NO, less it's a YUGE lift.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
Well said Kyle. My experience with two part lines has been limited. Basically because the op didn’t want to switch out. We were doing light pics and it slowed things down. Four part lines really slow it down. Only did one and it was kinda like a brag load. Picked over 16,000 and it was a single log load for the trailer. Also was well with in the chart. Op wanted to switch to the four part line for some reason. Prolly just to make it look bigger than it was
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I hate slow shit.
And there you go. Apples to oranges.
I turned down this job in winter for gravy inside fab work, newspaper picture because phones obviously aren't allowed in the gate. Several buddies were on it tho, and although this is obviously the extreme (4th biggest crane in the us i believe), i know cranes in an industrial setting. Just for shits and giggles, hook the block up with 2 part and single part (if you don't have a headache ball just run a strap around the block and shackle it to the load line wedge fitting), hang a normal sized strap, and pick up a 5 gallon bucket of sand. Slew 180 degrees, boom up or down to hit a target, and see what cycle times are. That will tell you what's up. If you have a swivel put that in between the line and load on single part, some crane lines really spin
Edit: if you have drop the ball to rig 2 part line, you never will because it takes too long. I've picked up a bolt bag with 8 part line because that's what the crane had.
Edit 2: I'm sure you know this, but don't boom in or out under load unless you have to. Doing so simply wears out the sliding pads (gibs), and will lead to a sloppy boom, and more maintenance cost. Easiest way to spot an operator who doesn't know wtf he's doing
I turned down this job in winter for gravy inside fab work, newspaper picture because phones obviously aren't allowed in the gate. Several buddies were on it tho, and although this is obviously the extreme (4th biggest crane in the us i believe), i know cranes in an industrial setting. Just for shits and giggles, hook the block up with 2 part and single part (if you don't have a headache ball just run a strap around the block and shackle it to the load line wedge fitting), hang a normal sized strap, and pick up a 5 gallon bucket of sand. Slew 180 degrees, boom up or down to hit a target, and see what cycle times are. That will tell you what's up. If you have a swivel put that in between the line and load on single part, some crane lines really spin
Edit: if you have drop the ball to rig 2 part line, you never will because it takes too long. I've picked up a bolt bag with 8 part line because that's what the crane had.
Edit 2: I'm sure you know this, but don't boom in or out under load unless you have to. Doing so simply wears out the sliding pads (gibs), and will lead to a sloppy boom, and more maintenance cost. Easiest way to spot an operator who doesn't know wtf he's doing
Good post.
We have a huge crane like that working nearby building a natural gas plant. Hella machine.
I mentioned earlier I was going to work with an 85 ton on Monday. Crane arrived late at 8.30, left at noon having done $6k of tree removal. Incredible machine. Sooooo much engineering, steel, welding, and hydraulics packed into a relatively small but extremely heavy package. It was set up with permission in the neighbor's gravel driveway whom we did some crane work for with a 33t years ago so I presume they guessed this work would be similar. All went well and we left no trace in the driveway, but I betcha if the neighbors had know how f'g huge that crane was when fully deployed, they woulda said NO WAY re permission, lol. I saw her looking out the upstairs window at this gigantic machine which utterly dwarfed her 2 story house. I wouldn't have been shocked, based on her facial expressions, if she had come out early and said 'pack it up and leave, get that thing off my property'. Yet with it's beefy counterweights, it sets up in a fairly small spot.
The power of the machine is just extreme. You see it early on in the simple act of leveling the crane on the pads n outriggers. Its amazing to watch this asphalt-crushing, lawn-destroying heavyweight being raised quickly and effortlessly off its's wheels.
The massive boom, the cylinders, the cable, it's all just so impressive to behold the precision and engineering that went into that machine.
We have a huge crane like that working nearby building a natural gas plant. Hella machine.
I mentioned earlier I was going to work with an 85 ton on Monday. Crane arrived late at 8.30, left at noon having done $6k of tree removal. Incredible machine. Sooooo much engineering, steel, welding, and hydraulics packed into a relatively small but extremely heavy package. It was set up with permission in the neighbor's gravel driveway whom we did some crane work for with a 33t years ago so I presume they guessed this work would be similar. All went well and we left no trace in the driveway, but I betcha if the neighbors had know how f'g huge that crane was when fully deployed, they woulda said NO WAY re permission, lol. I saw her looking out the upstairs window at this gigantic machine which utterly dwarfed her 2 story house. I wouldn't have been shocked, based on her facial expressions, if she had come out early and said 'pack it up and leave, get that thing off my property'. Yet with it's beefy counterweights, it sets up in a fairly small spot.
The power of the machine is just extreme. You see it early on in the simple act of leveling the crane on the pads n outriggers. Its amazing to watch this asphalt-crushing, lawn-destroying heavyweight being raised quickly and effortlessly off its's wheels.
The massive boom, the cylinders, the cable, it's all just so impressive to behold the precision and engineering that went into that machine.
August Hunicke
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4,033
This is great guys, thanks. Kyle, your posts are REALLY floating my boat! You say stuff in ways that make it all the way to the ah-ha part of my brain. Hey, what’s the button for on top of the winch lever?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Awesome crane, August. I was bragging to a treeco bud about it just today!!!
August, if you post a pick i might know, if not, i know several ncco operators that will. I'm not an operator, I'm a steamfitter/ pipeliner, so a crane and an operator are simply tools i use to do my job. Not knocking their profession, i just tell them what i need and they push levers to do that. On most heavy picks that I've done, they are boomed way out past their vision, and are relying on relayed hand signals or radio communication to tell them what to do. Now knowing being around equipment long enough, if there is a right to left toggle button, that is usually an auxiliary hydraulic feed, for some implement. If you are referring to the spinning knob that moves with the load line, that is to help the operator "feel" the amount of line payout, so they can do the hardest thing an operator has to do, which is booming up or down while holding the load at a set height. That is the test to see who is a regular operator who does cranes vs a crane operator who runs other equipment. If they can also swing while performing that accurately they are in the .00001 percent. The best operator i have ever seen performed that exact manoeuver while i was walking back from the trailer, where the load travelled directly in my line of sight, and the load didn't swing left or right more than 2 feet either way, while booming down and raising the load line (holding the load), he didn't go up or down a foot while moving the load over 100 feet in about 2 seconds. Needless to say, he was a bad mofo.
Edit: VERY IMPORTANT: I'm sure you are aware, but be very careful about two blocking with a crane. If I'm not mistaken, the knob you are referring to is to show the winch line movement, which I've mentioned helps when holding a load. Obviously, when you boom up, the winch line if held still will raise the load, possibly until the load contacts the block on the end of the boom. If this happens, the leverage will easily separate the line, and horrible shit will happen. Doing tree work, i imagine you will be at capacity, reach, and height quite often. It is especially important to be anally cautious about this danger, to the point that taking forever is almost too fast. The consequences of 2 blocking are so severe that doing otherwise can be fatal or worse.
Edit 2: make sure, every day, that the 2 block safety is working correctly. With the boom down as low as possible, cable in until it shuts off, or it lifts the sensor and doesn't trip. If that's not working correctly, did not attempt to work, that is an immediate do not pass go moment. Cranes are awesome, but with that power comes immense respect or terrible shit happens. Also check level with a very nice 4 to 6 foot level, on the deck, in both directions. Don't trust the bubble in bubble thing. Every good operator I've ever met did this. Make sure to pick up our the wheels completely. Finally, do not skimp on cribbing under your outriggers. I watched a 30 ton go to the tipping point and set back down because an outrigger sank in the asphalt. Build some large area pads, and use them religiously. Working residentially, you will deal with unknown soil conditions, and once again it's too great to risk. These are some of the best tips I've learned over the years.
Edit whatever number I'm on: remember cranes load charts are for the exact capacity, not taking in to account shock load. Yes they have a safety built in, but it's quite unwise to push that. Kind of the one ton truck to pull a mower trailer vs a half ton to pull a gooseneck. Anything over 75 percent, aka with unknown weights that are cut free with potential shock load, are deemed critical picks. What that means is that you are pushing the crane to the point that both osha and the crane manufacturers have stated that's the point where you need to fully engineer a pick. At that point, shock looking can easily tip a crane, or overload it's components. I've talked about duty cycle loading before, and i probably should again, not because you need me to, but maybe someone might pick something up from it.
When you stress steel over and over again, in time it will harden and crack. A hydraulic crane is designed to bend over until it hits the gibs, which then stop that part from bending anymore, and the boom becomes a cantilever. Loading cycles slowly work harden the steel, bending it over and over again until it forms cracks and breaks. Steel, as do most materials, have plastic deformation and permanent deformation figures. When you are pushing to critical lift status, you are either approaching the tipping point, or are hitting the point where the boom, hydraulics, or winches will be overloaded to the point of damage. With the expense of the crane, extreme care needs to be taken to preserve it's integrity. In my opinion, far more so than another other form of machinery.
So crane manufactures have chosen a phrase for repetitive, fast as possible actions on a crane, it's called duty cycle work. If that sounds strikingly similar to tree work, that's because it's the same damn thing. Ironwork is picking relatively light weight beams in location, all day every day. Basically the exact same as tree work. Duty cycle work requires a lattice boom crane, which can handle the acceleration, shock loads, and rapid loading and unloading cycles. Afaik no hydraulic boom has ever been approved for duty cycle work. So please proceed with caution. Your incredible effort, and in my humble opinion, God's plan, has allowed you this incredible opportunity and tool, and i wish you the best my friend.
Edit: VERY IMPORTANT: I'm sure you are aware, but be very careful about two blocking with a crane. If I'm not mistaken, the knob you are referring to is to show the winch line movement, which I've mentioned helps when holding a load. Obviously, when you boom up, the winch line if held still will raise the load, possibly until the load contacts the block on the end of the boom. If this happens, the leverage will easily separate the line, and horrible shit will happen. Doing tree work, i imagine you will be at capacity, reach, and height quite often. It is especially important to be anally cautious about this danger, to the point that taking forever is almost too fast. The consequences of 2 blocking are so severe that doing otherwise can be fatal or worse.
Edit 2: make sure, every day, that the 2 block safety is working correctly. With the boom down as low as possible, cable in until it shuts off, or it lifts the sensor and doesn't trip. If that's not working correctly, did not attempt to work, that is an immediate do not pass go moment. Cranes are awesome, but with that power comes immense respect or terrible shit happens. Also check level with a very nice 4 to 6 foot level, on the deck, in both directions. Don't trust the bubble in bubble thing. Every good operator I've ever met did this. Make sure to pick up our the wheels completely. Finally, do not skimp on cribbing under your outriggers. I watched a 30 ton go to the tipping point and set back down because an outrigger sank in the asphalt. Build some large area pads, and use them religiously. Working residentially, you will deal with unknown soil conditions, and once again it's too great to risk. These are some of the best tips I've learned over the years.
Edit whatever number I'm on: remember cranes load charts are for the exact capacity, not taking in to account shock load. Yes they have a safety built in, but it's quite unwise to push that. Kind of the one ton truck to pull a mower trailer vs a half ton to pull a gooseneck. Anything over 75 percent, aka with unknown weights that are cut free with potential shock load, are deemed critical picks. What that means is that you are pushing the crane to the point that both osha and the crane manufacturers have stated that's the point where you need to fully engineer a pick. At that point, shock looking can easily tip a crane, or overload it's components. I've talked about duty cycle loading before, and i probably should again, not because you need me to, but maybe someone might pick something up from it.
When you stress steel over and over again, in time it will harden and crack. A hydraulic crane is designed to bend over until it hits the gibs, which then stop that part from bending anymore, and the boom becomes a cantilever. Loading cycles slowly work harden the steel, bending it over and over again until it forms cracks and breaks. Steel, as do most materials, have plastic deformation and permanent deformation figures. When you are pushing to critical lift status, you are either approaching the tipping point, or are hitting the point where the boom, hydraulics, or winches will be overloaded to the point of damage. With the expense of the crane, extreme care needs to be taken to preserve it's integrity. In my opinion, far more so than another other form of machinery.
So crane manufactures have chosen a phrase for repetitive, fast as possible actions on a crane, it's called duty cycle work. If that sounds strikingly similar to tree work, that's because it's the same damn thing. Ironwork is picking relatively light weight beams in location, all day every day. Basically the exact same as tree work. Duty cycle work requires a lattice boom crane, which can handle the acceleration, shock loads, and rapid loading and unloading cycles. Afaik no hydraulic boom has ever been approved for duty cycle work. So please proceed with caution. Your incredible effort, and in my humble opinion, God's plan, has allowed you this incredible opportunity and tool, and i wish you the best my friend.
Stumpshot
General Purpose
^ Heed Kyle's cautions, for sure. I think about it every time we wheel out our grapple log truck.
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Mick!
TreeHouser
I’ve said it before, Kyle is a good writer.
Mick!
TreeHouser
S’alright Kyle.
What you seem to be able to do is pass over lots of info, which could be a bit boring, in a compact, interesting fashion.
Lots of long posts I can’t be arsed to read, but yours are the exception.
Not blowing smoke up your arse as the Aussies say, just maybe if you got pissed off with welding (which considering the money is unlikely) some other sort of training manuals writing or the like could be an avenue.
What you seem to be able to do is pass over lots of info, which could be a bit boring, in a compact, interesting fashion.
Lots of long posts I can’t be arsed to read, but yours are the exception.
Not blowing smoke up your arse as the Aussies say, just maybe if you got pissed off with welding (which considering the money is unlikely) some other sort of training manuals writing or the like could be an avenue.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
And I read them sometimes even if I realize I probably won't understand them. (I have to go google the difference in 2 part and 8 part line...my base level of knowledge for some of this is pretty low).
But folks are right....your posts are good to read. They reflect your understanding of the subject matter.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
I don't see the big deal with the 2 part line, his crane is fast enough for tree work it really is a non issue imo most of the time. The time it will take to change back and forth between ball and block vs winch time would negate going back and forth on all but the small pics. He got a great set up that should make him a buncha money. Made me look like an exspurt in that vid 
Check out www.oregontruckingonline.com August
Check out www.oregontruckingonline.com August
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Two part makes me fart.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Seems like 2 part will reduce how hard the winch and cable works. Do the top sheaves wear out realistically? Twice the rolling under half the load.
Afaik, the winch, like a honey badger, don't give a chit. Neither does the cable as long as its' within the working load specs.
Re top sheaves, that makes sense but afaik they don't wear much. The 85t Ive referenced before has plastic sheaves I guess to reduce weight. But plastic bearing all that weight is a bit insane to me. But the Grove folks figured it all out without my input so I guess we're good.
Re top sheaves, that makes sense but afaik they don't wear much. The 85t Ive referenced before has plastic sheaves I guess to reduce weight. But plastic bearing all that weight is a bit insane to me. But the Grove folks figured it all out without my input so I guess we're good.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
I didn't even know these vids existed until a post on FB by Terri B .Nor the fact the book "coast redwoods " .I promptly sent a PM to Terri and ordered a copy .--late to the party as usual---
