Welders? Any welders on this site?
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BlackSmith
Uncivil
Wonder where that came from. 
I was watching one of those hot rod shows and they were butt tig welding sheet body metal with the interesting procedure of pulling the metal tight with a bunch of spot welds and then dolly/hammering that stress back out before continuing. Have to admit I've never done precision sheet metal work like that.
Then they tigged a nut onto a broken stuck bolt and twisted it out (of steel not aluminum). Struck me that it was 50/50 whether having the solid hex head was the trick or it was the brutal heat cycle cracking the corrosion bond on the bolt. Looked like they poured the heat to it for good penetration.
Then they tigged a nut onto a broken stuck bolt and twisted it out (of steel not aluminum). Struck me that it was 50/50 whether having the solid hex head was the trick or it was the brutal heat cycle cracking the corrosion bond on the bolt. Looked like they poured the heat to it for good penetration.
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Cobleskill
Treehouser
It is the heat. The bolt broke when it was solid.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
My welds broke today. Had to have the rental yard come get their equipment trailer I had Robs truck on. Trailer sat high to my hitch so the yard put the adjustable receiver on it. Raising it pretty high making and additional lever. Guessing truck and trailer at about 11k. Two welds cracked. Went home fixed it and towed two more trailers with it today. I am going to reinforce some across the top of the receiver. Like a strap across with some 1/4 flat stock. Then reassess
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I wish I could get oxy welding down.
Never seem to get time enough to explore it proper. Figure how we used to build ships with that method.
Back to grinding....
Never seem to get time enough to explore it proper. Figure how we used to build ships with that method.
Back to grinding....
Cobleskill
Treehouser
Brazing used to be popular for cast iron. My bud told me his dad brazed bull gear teeth in a tractor. Filed them down to match. I wouldn't think they would hold up, but I guess they did. I have brazed up steel hydraulic lines several times. Still holding after many years. Nickle rod works good for cast but cost is way up. I welded up a gear box that split in two with nickle years ago. Amazing what you can do sometimes when you see the price to buy a new one.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Then comes one of my favorite interactions on web sites . I had made a slide pipe for a mini mac and the smallest gas tip was a number 4 and it was rough .I got heckled by one of many California know it alls . So I went to my shop and using a number 0 tip and gas welded two tin cans together ,That shut them up .
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
I might add on brazing the type alloy used makes a difference in strength . Ampco 18 which is silicon bronze is very strong and tough . I used this filler to build up a worm gear drive for a drill press made about 1920 .Used a lathe and a Bridgeport mill with a dividing head and a pocket calculator .I might add to lay down that bronze I used a number 10 or 11 tip ,talk about hot ,wow .
pigwot
M's, Juniper's, Lowen’s, and Inge’s Grandpa
Back when I owned bicycle shops we brazed complete bike frames together. Also did repairs: cut out bent tubing and brazed in new frame tubes, replaced broken dropouts (parts where the wheel axles mounted), added braze-on bosses for waterbottle cages, pump mounts, and cable stops, etc. We used ‘SIF-bronze 101’ rod for most of our brazing, but used a ‘SIF-silver solder 43’ rod for extremely fine work.
Cobleskill
Treehouser
Its just like tig welding, just slower, hotter, and you can't walk the cupyou might wanna try some 7018 on it, far more ductile and stronger for a trailer hitch.
How do you keep your 7018 dry? My neighbor had a 50# tin he opened and just left exposed. One would think you could just bake it in an oven for a couple hours but I read how hot and how long it takes to dry it-very hot and for a long time.
My uncle had a guy that used to weld and do repairs (it ended up being me) The guy had rod stored in an old fridge with a light bulb keeping it warm.
pigwot
M's, Juniper's, Lowen’s, and Inge’s Grandpa
A fellow who worked for me did suspension work on race cars with his father. Light, tubular steel frames in those no doubt. He claimed a properly brazed joint could be stronger than a welded joint.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Harley used socket brazed connections for decades .As far as rod I too use an old fridge or keep them in tubes .I must have 40-50 pounds of pure nickle all in tubes I got on a scrap pass after they stopped making cast iron engines .The 7018 is all in plastic containers which must work .I have no idea how much iron powder flux rods still sealed up in the boxes like 7014 and 7024 I have .Those you use when you really want to lay it down .
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flushcut
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #995
Re-baking rods is much hotter I think 750 for several hours. But are you doing code work with them? Lay them on the wood stove for half an hour I am sure they will weld mild steel just fine. Something important just buy a sealed tube of fresh rods.
7018 for code work is kept in rod ovens, they hold between 10 to 50 pounds and spin your meter pretty good. They also cook lunch really well lol. But a ton of contractors just keep them on a shelf on a lot of jobs. No, they honestly aren't low in hydrogen at that point, basically think of the coating as the absorbent things you get for your basement. But it will still leave an incredibly ductile and strong weld, just not one with a low hydrogen weld deposits. But for most applications that's more than fine, especially with a decent welder who's running hot enough to really dump some heat in, which allows hydrogen to dissipate out. After so long in enough humidity they'll be trash, and they are simply pitched since drying usually just causes the flux to crack.
Settings are personal but to give you an idea I'm around 95 amps for 3/32 7018, which heats the stub to yellow heat. On 1/8 they're usually at least red if not orange, roughly 120 to 130 amps. The weld itself will be glowing too, and if i can get away with it I'll burn even bigger rods if i can get them and run it in that position, basically using rod sizes to weld hotter and faster when i can, which is also greatly increasing the heat input to dissipate hydrogen and ensure penetration. I bend a single 90 degree bend on the rod right where it leaves the stinger straight out 90 degrees, and then tilt it to whatever angle best suits the situation, so that does warm the rod up more than simply clipping it. Bends in the rod cause resistance, so you can vary your heat on the fly without a remote pretty well at the expense of some rod length, which is usually not a problem if you're trying to turn down. But i don't turn down much, but if i do I'll often bump up the arc force up a bit so i can vary the amperage more with the arc length, shoving in tight building up metal but cooling the other side making it easier to control when weaving uphill. Almost any other time I'm running stringers, and at those heat settings you can simply drag the rod on the flux with a healthy drag angle and it'll blast the weld on.
We're still demoing out steam pipe that was welded with 6010 uphill lace caps, and they've been in service for decades, often on high pressure. Pipeline is traditionally welded downhill with cellulose rods, and the actual weld procedure is to weld hot and fast enough to input enough heat that the hydrogen mostly dissipates out. We weld with water coming out of the pipe right on the bottom where you're trying to weld, and on live chilled water and natural gas lines that are literally raining condensated water, so sometimes hydrogen is unavoidable in the field. On some jobs they've deemed that they care and they will demand having rod ovens and rod tracking, but many don't care so contractors do whatever they want. Often if it's something critical they'll open a new can and burn it that day and that's often good enough for the inspectors when they have them.
I don't have a rod oven at the house, I've got new cans if i think it needs to be right but i can't really think of anything i would use them for, but i also have a ton of opened high tensile cellulose rods (that i can run very well and are usually faster) so i usually just use them, meaning i very rarely use low hydrogen at home. I do like using ammo cans to keep rods fairly fresh, i forget the caliber but i have a couple mortar round ones that hold 2 50 pound cans, and really extend the life of cellulose rods. They would work for non critical 7018 storage too, basically like the little rod canisters but with a better seal. I thought i had a pic but i can't find it, i used them on the truck when i was running pipeline and i loved them. Worked really well for a weight to hold down my umbrella stand too, which was simply a plate used to lock up the lead with a nipple welded to it for the umbrella to sit in. I'll grab one if i remember.
Settings are personal but to give you an idea I'm around 95 amps for 3/32 7018, which heats the stub to yellow heat. On 1/8 they're usually at least red if not orange, roughly 120 to 130 amps. The weld itself will be glowing too, and if i can get away with it I'll burn even bigger rods if i can get them and run it in that position, basically using rod sizes to weld hotter and faster when i can, which is also greatly increasing the heat input to dissipate hydrogen and ensure penetration. I bend a single 90 degree bend on the rod right where it leaves the stinger straight out 90 degrees, and then tilt it to whatever angle best suits the situation, so that does warm the rod up more than simply clipping it. Bends in the rod cause resistance, so you can vary your heat on the fly without a remote pretty well at the expense of some rod length, which is usually not a problem if you're trying to turn down. But i don't turn down much, but if i do I'll often bump up the arc force up a bit so i can vary the amperage more with the arc length, shoving in tight building up metal but cooling the other side making it easier to control when weaving uphill. Almost any other time I'm running stringers, and at those heat settings you can simply drag the rod on the flux with a healthy drag angle and it'll blast the weld on.
We're still demoing out steam pipe that was welded with 6010 uphill lace caps, and they've been in service for decades, often on high pressure. Pipeline is traditionally welded downhill with cellulose rods, and the actual weld procedure is to weld hot and fast enough to input enough heat that the hydrogen mostly dissipates out. We weld with water coming out of the pipe right on the bottom where you're trying to weld, and on live chilled water and natural gas lines that are literally raining condensated water, so sometimes hydrogen is unavoidable in the field. On some jobs they've deemed that they care and they will demand having rod ovens and rod tracking, but many don't care so contractors do whatever they want. Often if it's something critical they'll open a new can and burn it that day and that's often good enough for the inspectors when they have them.
I don't have a rod oven at the house, I've got new cans if i think it needs to be right but i can't really think of anything i would use them for, but i also have a ton of opened high tensile cellulose rods (that i can run very well and are usually faster) so i usually just use them, meaning i very rarely use low hydrogen at home. I do like using ammo cans to keep rods fairly fresh, i forget the caliber but i have a couple mortar round ones that hold 2 50 pound cans, and really extend the life of cellulose rods. They would work for non critical 7018 storage too, basically like the little rod canisters but with a better seal. I thought i had a pic but i can't find it, i used them on the truck when i was running pipeline and i loved them. Worked really well for a weight to hold down my umbrella stand too, which was simply a plate used to lock up the lead with a nipple welded to it for the umbrella to sit in. I'll grab one if i remember.
Cobleskill
Treehouser
I'm thinking buy a tube and package it up in maybe 10 rod packages with a seal-a-meal.
BlackSmith
Uncivil
It can’t hurt. I’ve opened a new can of rod and put in the rod oven and ten minutes later there’s condensation on the inside of the lid of the oven.
I try to keep xx18 at 300* , it runs better in my opinion. Fuk what the inspectors think, they’re mostly just college idiots that never struck an arc.
Did some crack repairs on a shovel boom once and when I preheated the bevel the inspector commented on how much moisture that was coming out of the metal, not the crack but the metal. I told him yeah, metal is just like a sponge, soaks the water right up. lmfao, there is zero moisture “in” the metal, it’s in the air. That’s one reason, not the only reason, but that’s one reason to preheat. To overcome the moisture in the air. So my theory is if the rod is already hot it won’t attract any moisture when you first start welding and as the rod gradually gets hotter.
Everybody has their own opinion on how to do things and that’s ok, I’m not paying them. I want my next weld to be my best, not the last one before that.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Well. Lots of heat and banging. 1/8 6011 at 120 and this is as good as it gets. Slapped some 1/4 flat stock to keep some flex down. See how my ugly holds up. Now off to the hydraulic stor an hour out for o rings and fitting. New ram goin on grapnel. Of course they changed its config..... sooo.
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