I would also take the sheet metal off, and clean out the mouse nests etc, and grease the crank mechanism. Take apart and clean copper connections that are bolted, and then you should be good to go. Those machines work by moving a coil in a transformer, so the output is changed. Short of melting the coils or something i don't think you can kill those lol.
Welders? Any welders on this site?
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Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Just like resurrecting any old stuff,being at the right place at the right time .Often times at an industrial auction you can buy the complete machine with the leads cheaper than just new leads .I'd do what Carl suggested .Just tape them up and see if it works and go from there .
That old Marquette buzz box in my garage I inherited from my dad has taped up leads and I can about bet it's older than most people on the forum except maybe myself .Just like me.an oldie but a goody .
That old Marquette buzz box in my garage I inherited from my dad has taped up leads and I can about bet it's older than most people on the forum except maybe myself .Just like me.an oldie but a goody .
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
I might add a lot of those old machines used massive amounts of copper in the windings and didn't even employ a cooling fan .It's nearly impossible to kill them .Run them wide open until the stinger gets so hot you can't hold on to it and they just keep on keeping on .
pantheraba
More biners!!!
You guys are encouraging to read. I've been wondering if it was a boat anchor or not...I'll give it a shot.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
I'd leave to mouse nest in it .The aroma of roasted mice would discourage any further encroachment by the tiny rodents .
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
I?ll second Rajan?s comment. I just burnt up some tonight and I can almost guarantee more will move in before I use it again
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Bumping this thread up so I can find it later. 
. Good info in here. Lots of good back and forth but Kyle jumps in on page 7 and that's where the schooling starts. Thanks Kyle, Al and all contributors to this thread!
. Good info in here. Lots of good back and forth but Kyle jumps in on page 7 and that's where the schooling starts. Thanks Kyle, Al and all contributors to this thread!
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Bookmark it! 
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I've never done that?
Today after my massage in town I'm going to swing by a local machine/metal shop and pick up some odds and sods. Baby steps. I want to build myself a torch cart. I hate to admit that I've been using my torches for years now without a cart. Stupid I know. Hopefully they'll go easy on me price wise and have some scraps kicking around.
I found a miller ac/dc machine around locally for a $400 ask. A miller thunderbolt looks basically unused/new in the pics. Might watch for awhile though and try to score something cheaper.
Today after my massage in town I'm going to swing by a local machine/metal shop and pick up some odds and sods. Baby steps. I want to build myself a torch cart. I hate to admit that I've been using my torches for years now without a cart. Stupid I know. Hopefully they'll go easy on me price wise and have some scraps kicking around.
I found a miller ac/dc machine around locally for a $400 ask. A miller thunderbolt looks basically unused/new in the pics. Might watch for awhile though and try to score something cheaper.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
You don't have a favorites folder? How do you find your favorite sites?
BlackSmith
Uncivil
I’d have to paint it red or gray... 
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
I bought my Idealarc 250 for $25 at a farm auction. The electrode holder still had a $40 price tag on it.
I'd stay away from those cheap Lincoln AC and AC/DC welders. That have poor adjustability.
I'd stay away from those cheap Lincoln AC and AC/DC welders. That have poor adjustability.
BlackSmith
Uncivil
Estate auctions can yield some good finds. I’d avoid consignment auctions.
You basically stole that idealarc at that price!! Good find!! And I'm with you Bob, Lincoln for the win. In fact, I'll go further and say Lincoln generator for the ultimate win. A Miller will do fine tho, you won't notice the differences until you move up dramatically in price. I bought my 72 sa200 for 500 bucks, and i weld pipeline with it (after a rebuild to make it reliable). With staggered brushes and ocv up to about 93, she just stacks like you wouldn't believe. A buzzbox will lack adjustability, but fortunately you can dial the heat in with technique quite a bit stick welding. You can also bend the rod a few times, which adds a work hardened spot, which will make it burn slightly hotter. The fact that you can bend rods to help with accessing difficult spots is also an amazing advantage over mig.
You should start learning with either 6010 (dc) or 6011. They are cheap, not picky on storage as much as some rods, penetrate very deeply, tolerate slight rust, have a thin easy to remove slag, and have what's called a fast freeze puddle which allows all position welds to be easily made. You use them by slightly whipping the electrode back and forth, which allows you to control your heat. You can also simply weave them on lower heat settings, which makes very nice caps. Pipelines are still welded with xx10 rods.
Here's some videos, downhill pipe, but show the simple movements as you will see them. This simple back and forth motion can be used in literally any position with 6010 or 6011, and learning it first will help you when you go to other rods such as 7014 our 7018, where you just either drag or weave. It is also used to fill gaps, which will be a large part of welding stuff around the house.
https://youtu.be/TwvLku46I7k
https://youtu.be/7RLMw9d0rqE
https://youtu.be/y1cfwry10QI
You should start learning with either 6010 (dc) or 6011. They are cheap, not picky on storage as much as some rods, penetrate very deeply, tolerate slight rust, have a thin easy to remove slag, and have what's called a fast freeze puddle which allows all position welds to be easily made. You use them by slightly whipping the electrode back and forth, which allows you to control your heat. You can also simply weave them on lower heat settings, which makes very nice caps. Pipelines are still welded with xx10 rods.
Here's some videos, downhill pipe, but show the simple movements as you will see them. This simple back and forth motion can be used in literally any position with 6010 or 6011, and learning it first will help you when you go to other rods such as 7014 our 7018, where you just either drag or weave. It is also used to fill gaps, which will be a large part of welding stuff around the house.
https://youtu.be/TwvLku46I7k
https://youtu.be/7RLMw9d0rqE
https://youtu.be/y1cfwry10QI
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
I'd like to have an SA-200 at the sawmill for power and repairs.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
Look and see if there are any old Forney welders in your area, Justin. They are tanks and most people think they aren’t worth much, really wish I’d have kept my last one, but with my Hobart champion 10k, it was hard to justify both. Now that I’m older, it’d be nice to be able to weld with the doors closed in the winter!
6010 and 6011 are decent rods, but wouldn’t be my suggestion for starting out, they can be hard to start an arc for new welders and a little hard to make a pretty bead with. My suggestion, and it’s just that, I’d start with 6013. It’s called “farmers rod” for a lot of reasons, easy to start, burns even, if setup right you can just let the rod burn while laying down, it’s readily available and will build confidence. But that’s just me.
6010 and 6011 are decent rods, but wouldn’t be my suggestion for starting out, they can be hard to start an arc for new welders and a little hard to make a pretty bead with. My suggestion, and it’s just that, I’d start with 6013. It’s called “farmers rod” for a lot of reasons, easy to start, burns even, if setup right you can just let the rod burn while laying down, it’s readily available and will build confidence. But that’s just me.
BlackSmith
Uncivil
If you learn to pass a simple all position bend test with 6010 the rest is childs play as far as SMAW is concerned.
Squish, about your mig machine. It shoud be just fine for body work and lite gauge material. Thicker than 1/4” is possible with the proper joint design and a little preheat. I would suggest a tri mix gas such as Stargon. It’s a mix of argon, co2 and a hint of oxygen. Runs hotter and almost no spatter.
Loved the old SA200 and 250 machines. They just put me in the right mood to work. Had a 300 Classic in diesel that welded the same, you can’t beat a copper wound generator, but the engine just didn’t calm me like the gassers.
Squish, about your mig machine. It shoud be just fine for body work and lite gauge material. Thicker than 1/4” is possible with the proper joint design and a little preheat. I would suggest a tri mix gas such as Stargon. It’s a mix of argon, co2 and a hint of oxygen. Runs hotter and almost no spatter.
Loved the old SA200 and 250 machines. They just put me in the right mood to work. Had a 300 Classic in diesel that welded the same, you can’t beat a copper wound generator, but the engine just didn’t calm me like the gassers.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I'm gonna hold steady right now and research and learn some. I've refined my searching and found a few used welders around. From my scratching of the surface it seems a dc machine is easier to use than a straight ac. If that's the case I think I'll be smart to hold out for a ac/dc unit. But I'd be curious of course to hear everyone's opinion?
Seems with a little stick machine I'd be pretty well set then with that and my mig and oxy/acet torches. Didn't make the metal store today ran out of time. Maybe tomorrow if I can talk myself into going to town.
Bob stargold c20 is what's on my mig right now. Must've been what the supplier recommended.
Seems with a little stick machine I'd be pretty well set then with that and my mig and oxy/acet torches. Didn't make the metal store today ran out of time. Maybe tomorrow if I can talk myself into going to town.
Bob stargold c20 is what's on my mig right now. Must've been what the supplier recommended.
flushcut
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #121
The Thunderbolt would serve you well if you were to pick one up. But needs a 100 amp circuit to get all the potential out of it. I had one for a while and wish I still had it. Straight DC is what you will use most and AC really depends on if your are welding something that is magnetized or a speciality rod or using it for TIG.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
You mean a 100 amp breaker for it in the panel? I've got the service for it in my shop. 200amp separate from my house.
I don't know much about electricity.....and the little I do know I don't know well.
I don't know much about electricity.....and the little I do know I don't know well.
But you will be unable to do out of position work with a mig. If you don't believe me, please weld up a vertical tee joint, cut a few 1" thick segments, and bend them in a vise, a few each way. Money says they will open up in the root or toe of the weld due to lack of fusion. It can definitely be done, but it's much harder than stick welding, and if you can't stick weld you won't stand a chance at pulling it off.
The nice thing about 6010s and 11s is that you get automatic feedback of how you are doing and what you are doing wrong. They are easy to start if you simply stick them at an angle, grab it like a cigarette, and then wiggle them free, that's how's it's done on the pipeline if you don't run an auto lens in your pancake, because you can't nod a pancake hood down. By using your other hand a few inches from the rod you gain tons of control, and will learn to not make arc marks all over, which when welding pipe will get you fired. 6010s and 11s will also be an excellent rod choice to weld on just about anything, so to me it makes sense to learn them first, because you will end up reaching for them often (especially when you get comfortable).
Dave, an sa200 will be terrible for a generator, most only supply 115 v dc, and 10 amps (they will handle 15, but you do risk burning up exciter coils). All dc generator style machines (sa 200, sae 300, big blue 40, basically slow turning water cooled types with little to no computers) have an exciter circuit, and a generator (for welding) circuit. While they put out around 300 amps on the welding end, the exciter circuit is used for powering grinders and stuff and then to supply the power for the electromagnet coils in the welding generator end. So basically any little generator will supply more power for tools than a sa200. What these types of machines do tho, is burn stick rods like there's no tomorrow. They all have what's called a dropping arc curve, which in real life means you can control exactly how much the amperage changes as you change your arc length.
So not only do you have amperage control, you also have another control that is voltage/ slope of volt amp curve. For example, when welding pipeline, you will weld a large variety of pipe sizes and wall thicknesses, but will often do one size over and over again for awhile. Since speed is critical, if I'm welding fill and cap passes all day, i can set my machine to have a stiff arc with just enough voltage at my set amperage to wet out the puddle to make it pretty. You do this by choosing the range first, then setting your fine tune in the location you want for the arc characteristics, then adjusting the rpms on the governor to dial your heat in perfect. This will be as good as your machine can possibly run, so you can keep up with everybody else. When welding with low hydrogen rods, you can run in a higher gear, but then dial back the voltage. This allows you to jam the rod tight on the sides (bumping up amperage dramatically depositing more weld), then lift the rod when going over the middle (increases voltage while decreasing amperage, cooling the puddle and causing it to wet out smoothing the surface).
Inverters and transformer machines do this to a point with either ranges and arc force/ control knobs. They can't quite replicate the arc exactly tho, which is why Lincoln still makes and sells tons of dc generator style welders at 5 times the cost of the more common generator transformer/ inverter kinds such as the Lincoln ranger, Miller bobcat and trailblazer, and the Hobart champion. These machines have a large ac alternator, which then it converts to dc, much like a shop machine. Most can power all sorts of tools and stuff, i use my Miller trailblazer during power outages. All are good machines, but won't weld like the generators. You really notice the difference with 6010, which is why 6011 is ideal for most people. The non generator machines kinda suck with 6010, especially the inverters because they don't have enough voltage in the arc. This leads to a harsh arc that lacks the responsiveness and adjustability with arc length.
The nice thing about 6010s and 11s is that you get automatic feedback of how you are doing and what you are doing wrong. They are easy to start if you simply stick them at an angle, grab it like a cigarette, and then wiggle them free, that's how's it's done on the pipeline if you don't run an auto lens in your pancake, because you can't nod a pancake hood down. By using your other hand a few inches from the rod you gain tons of control, and will learn to not make arc marks all over, which when welding pipe will get you fired. 6010s and 11s will also be an excellent rod choice to weld on just about anything, so to me it makes sense to learn them first, because you will end up reaching for them often (especially when you get comfortable).
Dave, an sa200 will be terrible for a generator, most only supply 115 v dc, and 10 amps (they will handle 15, but you do risk burning up exciter coils). All dc generator style machines (sa 200, sae 300, big blue 40, basically slow turning water cooled types with little to no computers) have an exciter circuit, and a generator (for welding) circuit. While they put out around 300 amps on the welding end, the exciter circuit is used for powering grinders and stuff and then to supply the power for the electromagnet coils in the welding generator end. So basically any little generator will supply more power for tools than a sa200. What these types of machines do tho, is burn stick rods like there's no tomorrow. They all have what's called a dropping arc curve, which in real life means you can control exactly how much the amperage changes as you change your arc length.
So not only do you have amperage control, you also have another control that is voltage/ slope of volt amp curve. For example, when welding pipeline, you will weld a large variety of pipe sizes and wall thicknesses, but will often do one size over and over again for awhile. Since speed is critical, if I'm welding fill and cap passes all day, i can set my machine to have a stiff arc with just enough voltage at my set amperage to wet out the puddle to make it pretty. You do this by choosing the range first, then setting your fine tune in the location you want for the arc characteristics, then adjusting the rpms on the governor to dial your heat in perfect. This will be as good as your machine can possibly run, so you can keep up with everybody else. When welding with low hydrogen rods, you can run in a higher gear, but then dial back the voltage. This allows you to jam the rod tight on the sides (bumping up amperage dramatically depositing more weld), then lift the rod when going over the middle (increases voltage while decreasing amperage, cooling the puddle and causing it to wet out smoothing the surface).
Inverters and transformer machines do this to a point with either ranges and arc force/ control knobs. They can't quite replicate the arc exactly tho, which is why Lincoln still makes and sells tons of dc generator style welders at 5 times the cost of the more common generator transformer/ inverter kinds such as the Lincoln ranger, Miller bobcat and trailblazer, and the Hobart champion. These machines have a large ac alternator, which then it converts to dc, much like a shop machine. Most can power all sorts of tools and stuff, i use my Miller trailblazer during power outages. All are good machines, but won't weld like the generators. You really notice the difference with 6010, which is why 6011 is ideal for most people. The non generator machines kinda suck with 6010, especially the inverters because they don't have enough voltage in the arc. This leads to a harsh arc that lacks the responsiveness and adjustability with arc length.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I've read you loud and clear on the limitations of mig and espescially a small one like mine. No out of position, basically weld flat, no thick metal 1/4" max and the chart on my machine only lists settings up to 3/16" and I think that's only with flux core gasless wire? And no dirty metals.
I am hopeful to find a ac/dc stick machine for less than $400 now. I'll watch a couple of thunderbolts locally and see if they drop their price. I found one ac/dc machine for a $100 but it's a solid $200 in fuel their and back lol. I've really just started looking so I need to wait and find the deal and then pounce!
Until then I'll putz around with my little mig and see if I can get better with it.
I am hopeful to find a ac/dc stick machine for less than $400 now. I'll watch a couple of thunderbolts locally and see if they drop their price. I found one ac/dc machine for a $100 but it's a solid $200 in fuel their and back lol. I've really just started looking so I need to wait and find the deal and then pounce!
Until then I'll putz around with my little mig and see if I can get better with it.
remember you can weld and braze with your oxy torch setup too, an invaluable skill to learn!Similar threads
