Wedges....

[stig]

Burnham, do you really mean that using wedges on trees that small would be better/faster than using a long felling bar?

I've spend a large ( way too large actually, it's not fun work) part of my youth thinning trees like those for pulpwood.
Usually a stand of trees will have a common lean, maybe only a degree or two, but still enough to utilize when falling them. Start at the point they are leaning towards and work away from there.
I figure you can knock a conifer of up to 1½ cubic meter( can't do boardfeet, sorry) over with a felling bar if it stands straight, bigger if they lean a few degrees.
The added advantage of using the felling bar, is you have it on hand, whenever you hang a tree up.
Like Bermy said, using a splitlevel cut will help those without total control of the saw cutting into the bar.

 

[Burnham]

Stig, I expect in your hands the felling bar would work a sweet treat and be just right for that size wood.

I never have even met one in person . It's not a tool with much history for use here in my part of the world...I expect because for most of the history of logging here the trees were far too large to use a felling bar on.

So I guess for me there are several questions regarding pros and cons vs. wedges.

Can you use one to hold a kerf open against the lean (I'm talking mild lean here) while you complete the back cut? Is it possible to shift a mild back leaner to commit to the face, as you would with a wedge? Can you stablize a side leaner during completion of the back cut?

Your proposition about a common lean to a stand is interesting...not something I have experienced...I have found that thinning requires me to put trees every which way to get them on the ground...differing thinning densities could play a big role in that difference we have experienced.

I completely agree with the advantage of having the peavy function on hand to handle hangups...that would be great.

 

[stig]

The felling bar I like, ( the type in the pic) is about 4 feet long and the "head" is about as wide as a small wedge. So it'll hold the kerf open against a moderate back lean.
I always keep a wedge and hammer by my gas/oil cannister to use if the tree proves to be too much for the bar to lever over.

I'll use the bar in small decidous trees, too. The good thing about it is you can get a tree to fall faster than with wedges, because you can keep pressure on it as it goes. that difference can make a big difference if you have to squeeze the trees down into narrow lays.

The common lean may be attributed to our prevailing winds being from the west, here. It is something that can be a great help on a clearcut, but being aware of it can help in thinning, too.

 

[Ed L]

Stig, that felling bar looks like it would be very usefull! I'm currently cutting quite a few EAB killed Ash trees, many are only 8" to 10" at the butt, that doesn't leave much room for a wedge.
I currently have the small Fiskars (sold by Husky) fellling bar, it's way to short to do much good in lifting a tree over.

I'll definately try to find one, do you know the manufacturer?

Ed

 

[Swe#kipp]

I know that Bacho/Sandvik used to make them !

 

[woodworkingboy]

Bacho...haven't heard that name in years. An old friend had a set of Bacho chisels of very good quality.

 

[Swe#kipp]

Sherrilltree should be able to get them for you I think, they sell the smaller ones !
http://gear.sherrilltree.com/iwwida.pvx?;search_submit?comp=SHE&cat=WORK

 

[stig]

The one in the picture is sold by Husqvarna over here, but Stihl has one just like it in their european catalogue.
They work great for dead ashtrees because those are not topheavy and therefore usually real easy to lever over.

 

[Ed L]

Sherrilltree should be able to get them for you I think, they sell the smaller ones !
http://gear.sherrilltree.com/iwwida.pvx?;search_submit?comp=SHE&cat=WORK

I did see those, I'll give them a call about longer ones.

The one in the picture is sold by Husqvarna over here, but Stihl has one just like it in their european catalogue.
They work great for dead ashtrees because those are not topheavy and therefore usually real easy to lever over.

Thanks stig!

Ed

 

[Husky D]

Because of the different styles of cutting we train the use of felling levers as standard practice here in the uk. As Burnham said the size of tree's and there dimensions he cuts there is no need for anything else but a wedge but for us in small diameter tree's the wedge (as much as I like them and use them frequently) doesn't have the required result and ends up against the hinge and can result in lift ing of the tree vertically (popping the hinge) and the lifting effect stopping. As for moderate back weighted tree's with a long lever i do split level cut in training but i prefer the danish cut which is basically boring out behind the hinge as you would for a heavy forward leaner allow for proper hidge setting then back cutting and pulling the saw out to leave one quarter of the felling cut remaining. You then put the lever in the kerf to stop the tree coming back and then undercut the last quarter fractionally lower to avoid the lever and then lift up to pop the grain vertically and tip the tree. You can vary the side to leave the remaining hold if you consider there to be side weight as well as back weight so the completed cut is done from the non lean side. This cut was especially useful in line thinnings when you pretty much wanted all the tree's the same way for production. If they get hung up and have no distinct way to roll what we teach is to bore the centre of the hinge out from the back leaving at least 10% either side this then allows you to pencil cut on an angle either of the hinges away to try to avoid trapping of the saw and then use the hook on the felling lever to roll in the required direction. If they still won't roll just do pencil cuts on the remaining hinge to allow the tree to settle on the stump and then pole or winch it backwards. Hope this makes sense as to our usage of the bar but probably just telling you all stuff you all ready know
D.

 

[Burnham]

Excellent post, D.

 

[Swe#kipp]

Here is a link were they use the lever for felling and to roll down (trying) trees .
http://www.skogforsk.se/KunskapDirekt/Templates/WMPage____15350.aspx

 

[stig]

Hey Husky D, you must have pulled REALLY hard on the old felling bar to make that mark on the tree in your avatar

 

[pete mctree]

Good post Husky D - well explained

 

[Husky D]

Hey Husky D, you must have pulled REALLY hard on the old felling bar to make that mark on the tree in your avatar

LOL! I'd still be there now Stig if I used one on that! Had to resort to the good old steel wedge to "persuade" this one to behave along with several plastic and hi-lifts. It wasn't so much of a back lean but a slight kink in the trunk making it want to commit sideways more but i felt it would result in less damage to trunk and surroundings going uphill and got it there but it took about 1.5 hours from start to finish. Normally it should have been pulled by a winch but the only reason I cut it and a few others was that the contractor had pulled out and missed these. It produced just shy of 100' of timber and the first 26' weighed around 4.5 plus ton so held its diameter well. Not a threat to the PNW boys by a long shot but wouldn't mind a few more of these to cut!

Glad the previous post made sense always seems better in your head then when you type sometimes

 

[squisher]

Husky D in your avatar the undercut on that tree looks really small? Did you trim part of the butt off or something?

 

[Husky D]

Hi Squisher, No only trimmed the hinge off. Trend over here is to only cut in 20-25% for your face cut (in training circles anyway)but most people over here would do an open face rather than a humboldt. Any time i have experimented with that i have found the results better going in towards a third which seems to be recommended by dent and others from what i've read in books and internet (is that true to what you do?)

 

[sotc]

typically yes, 1/3rd usually gives you most hinge, and under mines enough weight to minimize wedge driving. especially on a back leaner

 

[stig]

That is an old discussion, the narrower facecut gives you more lever action when you wedge, the deeper face changes the balance of the tree.
Which to use is hard to say, in this case tradition ( Europe/ US) is what makes one use one or the other, I think.

Husky D, when I saw those wedge indentations on the end of your log, I knew you must have had a fun time trying to knock that one over

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I have a tendency to go too deep into a face cut on dead pine, especially dead cedar... And I also use tag lines a lot to direct opposite lean. So there are times I will cut deeper with a tag line. I think I should probably bore those instead to prevent barber chair. Any thoughts there Stig or Burn?

 

[stig]

In my opinion a borecut or gutted hinge can be made stronger than one which is not.
Reason being, the wood in the sides of the hinge is what really holds and directs the tree. If you doubt this, nip the sides out of a hinge on a leaner and see what happens ( keep an escape route ready!!).
By boring the middle of the hinge out, you can make the remaining hinge thicker wo. getting a barberchair, therefore the hinge is stronger.
Also the sidewood in hinges is sapwood which in all the species I work with is more elastic than heartwood, thus more bendable and makes a stronger hinge.

 

[Nails]

In my opinion a borecut or gutted hinge can be made stronger than one which is not.
Reason being, the wood in the sides of the hinge is what really holds and directs the tree. If you doubt this, nip the sides out of a hinge on a leaner and see what happens ( keep an escape route ready!!).
By boring the middle of the hinge out, you can make the remaining hinge thicker wo. getting a barberchair, therefore the hinge is stronger.
Also the sidewood in hinges is sapwood which in all the species I work with is more elastic than heartwood, thus more bendable and makes a stronger hinge.

I agree. The facebore also makes it nice for driving wedges on smaller trees. There is no hinge to stop the wedge, and you can put the wedges and the saw in the same backcut kerf.