CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
HA!
Try some different hitch cord... Some will give you more "life" than others
Try some different hitch cord... Some will give you more "life" than others
Using both ends of the rope
- Thread starter Bermy
- Start date
- Replies 90
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And a VT can screw you up, too, if you don't mind it.
If it is tied to really self tend, it will not always grab if the weight has been off it.
I find it funny that you, Butch, who have created this place where we exchange information on the newest tecniques and developements, is such an oldschooler
If it is tied to really self tend, it will not always grab if the weight has been off it.
I find it funny that you, Butch, who have created this place where we exchange information on the newest tecniques and developements, is such an oldschooler
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Hey, I'll be here all week! 
treelooker
Treehouser
That is a great feeling of joy for me too. Perfect balance gives that Aaaaaahhhhh feeling, swaying in control with, not of, the treee.
split-tail may be a tad faster on changeovers but tautline has advantages too. mine has more hitches than Butch's on a thinner rope. Butch do you use a micropulley/selftender thingamabobber?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Nyet.
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bill22
Guest
I tried a buddy's split tail yesterday, I kept creeping and sliding and I had to really make it seat by pulling on the stopper knot. I'm thinking it was just the wrong kind of rope for my climbline. His split tail was arbormaster blue streak, my climb line is arborplex.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
A split tail is a split tail: a friction hitch is a friction hitch.
Two separate critters altogether. The split tail had nothing to do with your hitch "creeping and sliding."
Two separate critters altogether. The split tail had nothing to do with your hitch "creeping and sliding."
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bill22
Guest
Okay cool so its compatible to use 16 strand on 12 strand? Thanks mang.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I don't know about that. I don't use different type ropes together.
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bill22
Guest
Thats what I was thinking was making it creep. 2 different ropes. I like the idea of having a split tail for using my climb line as a long lanyard on big stems, or as mentioned for recrotching.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Make sure that your split tail rope is the same as your climb line and you shouldn't have any problems. Just pay attention to your hitch - keep it dressed and snug.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Guy, you can tie a taughtline hitch with your split tail. I'm pretty sure you already know that but your post sounded otherwise
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #63
Amusing discourse here at times...what, who said what, when, huh?!
Inbred...I go with a Blake's for my 'old school' it's what I started climbing on, never liked a prussik, never learned a taughtline...does that make me a 'new school, old school?'
Funny though, having gotten so used to pulling from above with the VT/hitchclimber, I was doing it with the blakes without thinking, then realizing I had to pull, push, pull, push...no micro pulley, nothing fancy, just a 'get it done' setup again.
Inbred...I go with a Blake's for my 'old school' it's what I started climbing on, never liked a prussik, never learned a taughtline...does that make me a 'new school, old school?'
Funny though, having gotten so used to pulling from above with the VT/hitchclimber, I was doing it with the blakes without thinking, then realizing I had to pull, push, pull, push...no micro pulley, nothing fancy, just a 'get it done' setup again.
treelooker
Treehouser
So a 5-wrap prussik would be 3 down 2 up. That's mine, it is pretty fast, takes 1 hand, and creeping is rare. sotc you can do that with a split tail? well whaddya know!
yeah Fi this isthe internet--wha? how? do what now?
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Fiona, if you tie the tail of your blake a little long, you can hold that against the standing end and then pull slack from below just like you had a pully under it.
Sorry Guy, you previous post made it sound like you were not clear on a split tail, I figured you were but just clarifiying
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Bounce
Guest
Benefits of a split tail system:
1. If you use a split tail, you don't have to untie your friction hitch in order to open up the loop in the climbing line. So you can reset the line over a different branch without having to untie or retie any knots.
2. A climbing line set up in the split tail method can also be used as if it were a flipline while spur-climbing, so you don't have to carry that second flipline.
3. The split tail method prevents you from having to periodically cut off the tail of your climbing line to get rid of the section damaged by your knot. So your climbing line stays the same length.
4. Allows use of prusik-type friction hitches, such as VT, Distel, Michoacan, etc.
5. Allows use of heat-resistant prusik cord to tie the friction hitch with.
Benefits of the old school/traditional/fixed tail method:
1. Fewer connecting links in the climbing system is safer (fewer things that can fail)
What did I miss?
1. If you use a split tail, you don't have to untie your friction hitch in order to open up the loop in the climbing line. So you can reset the line over a different branch without having to untie or retie any knots.
2. A climbing line set up in the split tail method can also be used as if it were a flipline while spur-climbing, so you don't have to carry that second flipline.
3. The split tail method prevents you from having to periodically cut off the tail of your climbing line to get rid of the section damaged by your knot. So your climbing line stays the same length.
4. Allows use of prusik-type friction hitches, such as VT, Distel, Michoacan, etc.
5. Allows use of heat-resistant prusik cord to tie the friction hitch with.
Benefits of the old school/traditional/fixed tail method:
1. Fewer connecting links in the climbing system is safer (fewer things that can fail)
What did I miss?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Point number three is what I like about them, even though I don't use them.
I just descend REAL slowlike, unlike most climbers that like to "burn it to the ground," showing off - kinda.
I just descend REAL slowlike, unlike most climbers that like to "burn it to the ground," showing off - kinda.
flushcut
TreeHouser
Yeah, and I bet you look good doing it too, all cool like. I don't really care for the fast descent myself unless I am using a fig8.
Jed
TreeHouser
Fiona: You are quite Newschool. The Blakes didn't even appear till rather recently. Here's a funny thing about Mr. Beranek: in his Fundamentals of General Treework book he says something like, "The Blake appears to have no real advantage over the taught-line... can take a long time to tie... etc." At the time that I read that I thought, "Yeah right... everybody knows that the Blake works about a million times better that the Taught-Line and it doesn't creep." I thought that for a long time. Then a funny thing happened--I started working on a crew that only does removal work. We use our climb-lines to run a lot of wood down on--I know, I know Willie: bad idea etc.--and consequently, they get super pitch-loaded any super nasty-stiff. If we ask for a new one the shop manager just laughs at us. For this reason I always use--I really don't know what the heck people call them--an "eye and eye?" or a "bee-line?" or whatever one calls the two spliced eye little (18") chords. BTW guys, it's better to just make your own, using Velocity line or whatever, by just using two fisherman knots in the ends.
ANYWAY: our lines are disgustingly stiff and they don't tie well, but still, when you have to make some huge descent you really don't want to be burning down on that $40.00 eye n' eye, so.... you tie a Blake-hitch right? Wrong. That thing will scare you in a really bad way on super stiff line--doesn't work. Lo and Behold: the Taught-line (3-wrap) still does. Old-School. That's why I've really come to value the old-timers around here.
By the way Bounce: You forgot #2. The old-timers can tie their hitches WAY faster that all these Poopstained Kids.
Bill: We got to get you up to speed a bit man. What kind of a jackass would use Arborplex anyway? Go ahead Willie... LOL. I used to use that crap too. Super cheap and light, but it holds a Grand less than pro climbline, and it curls-up like nothing else on long descents. Also: Try an eye-and-eye w/micro-pulley for the "climbline as a flipline on the big-sticks" idea. More better.
Stig: Your cordage is too long. Throw away that stupid, pre-spliced, over-priced eye-and-eye chord and make your own shorter one using fisherman not eyes instead of the factory splice ones, and that VT will bite like nothing else with one fewer wrap in it. I promise.
Oh yeah... Bounce: What the deuce is a Machoacan?
ANYWAY: our lines are disgustingly stiff and they don't tie well, but still, when you have to make some huge descent you really don't want to be burning down on that $40.00 eye n' eye, so.... you tie a Blake-hitch right? Wrong. That thing will scare you in a really bad way on super stiff line--doesn't work. Lo and Behold: the Taught-line (3-wrap) still does. Old-School. That's why I've really come to value the old-timers around here.
By the way Bounce: You forgot #2. The old-timers can tie their hitches WAY faster that all these Poopstained Kids.
Bill: We got to get you up to speed a bit man. What kind of a jackass would use Arborplex anyway? Go ahead Willie... LOL. I used to use that crap too. Super cheap and light, but it holds a Grand less than pro climbline, and it curls-up like nothing else on long descents. Also: Try an eye-and-eye w/micro-pulley for the "climbline as a flipline on the big-sticks" idea. More better.
Stig: Your cordage is too long. Throw away that stupid, pre-spliced, over-priced eye-and-eye chord and make your own shorter one using fisherman not eyes instead of the factory splice ones, and that VT will bite like nothing else with one fewer wrap in it. I promise.
Oh yeah... Bounce: What the deuce is a Machoacan?
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Haha, did I ride you about arborplex when you were here?
Michoacan is a state in Mexico
Also a friction hitch
Michoacan is a state in Mexico
Also a friction hitch
Jed
TreeHouser
Yeah you did, but you won that one fair and square. YUCK!!!!!!!
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Haha, just cause garbage is cheap doesn't make it a good deal
pigwot
M's, Juniper's, Lowen’s, and Inge’s Grandpa
The Michoacan, also called the 'Martin', is actually a very nice hitch once you get the length dialed in.
http://www.treestuff.com/store/images/pdf/hitch1.pdf
http://www.treestuff.com/store/images/pdf/hitchoverview.pdf
http://www.treestuff.com/store/images/pdf/hitch1.pdf
http://www.treestuff.com/store/images/pdf/hitchoverview.pdf
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Bounce
Guest
My bad. Can't believe I forgot that one. However, I still think it's faster if you don't have to untie and re-tie the knot at all. No matter how fast you are at tying your hitch, it still takes time to tie, whereas us poopstained kids using the split tail system spend zero time untying and retying friction hitches once we're in the tree. 
Doubt it, since I run a 26" cord. Any shorter and you'll have a hard time getting enough wraps in.
Also with the hitchclimber, the fisherman's knot is way too bulky, the beauty of a Hitchclimber set-up with a VT is the sleekness.
As for overpriced, my partner Richard splices for me, so far I haven't paid him anything but favours in return
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