Unattended chippers

[woodworkingboy]

I note the quick reflexes over government intervention.

I think I'm just trying to picture an ideal situation, where regulations are in combination with an effective training program, pertaining to a known hazard. I can also accept that it may not be workable for various reasons, inability to alter established perceptions, being one.

If you can tell me that proper training is already the standard, I'll readily accept that my idea has no value.

Brett, I think it's naive to expect new employees to want proper training for themselves, for the most part likely knowing very little about the work in general, especially "invincible" young folks.

 

[SkwerI]

Why do so many people think that the very first and best solution to any and all problems is 'regulation' (implied government control)? PLEASE stop spewing that insane talk! MORE GOVERNMENT is not the solution.

 

[woodworkingboy]

You're jumping to conclusions as the blood rises to your brain with mention of government intervention. Who said it's the first solution, or the best? Why the hell did they have to implement seat belt laws, or the now growing number of places that are passing laws about using cell phones when operating motor vehicles? None of those regs are either the first or the best, but people refuse to be smart, and we are living in a society.

Agreed, two strikes against you from the get-go when asking the government to do anything for you that you can do yourself.

 

[SkwerI]

You're voicing my argument very well. Continue to think about it and then see if you want to keep calling for more government regulation. you've already admitted that similar regulation being passed left and right is not a workable solution for the intended problem, but yet you still think even more regulation will somehow 'fix' things?


The AA definition for Insanity is 'repeating the same behavior over and over while expecting different results'.

 

[Jonseredbred]

Why the hell did they have to implement seat belt laws, or the now growing number of places that are passing laws about using cell phones when operating motor vehicles? .

A new revenue stream.

 

[Old Monkey]

We've been declared the most dangerous occupation, why wouldn't OSHA be interested in coming down on us? How many Brits go through chippers every year?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Right, it generally isn't very wise to ask one problem to fix another. No, I didn't say a similar regulation being passed left and right is not a workable solution for the intended problem. I'm not sure what you mean there. If you are referring to seat belts, I'm saying the law had to be implemented because too many people showed poor discrimination and lack of common sense. It's idiotic to me that such laws need to be passed, same with the cell phone ones, but I would like to say that maybe they are a good idea in SOME situations. That's what I want to express about possible regulations for chippers, am just looking at it as an option, that's all. I'm not saying that the law should be passed for you, or the vast number of people who know not to eat their peas with a knife, but the options get sorely minimized when the root of a problem is stupidity.

Should a law be required for someone who has the skills to drive on the wrong side of the road when there is no oncoming traffic? No, but fortunately, the answer is yes, when you think of the numbers who would be doing it, comprised of the unskilled too. It's the undeniable fact of living in a society. It's sure not the most desirable option, imo, but maybe the only one.

 

[SkwerI]

We have regulations on chippers. They require manufacturers to add all sorts of safety interlocks that so cripple the machines that they end up being bypassed just to allow the machine to function properly. THAT'S the kind of regulations you end up getting when you call for more regulations.

Same with chainsaws and other gas powered equipment. We have government regulations requiring catalytic converters which burn up the motors and limiter caps on the adjustment screws which result in saws running too lean and seizing. THAT'S what you get when government decides to regulate something.

How about the boondoggle that is the government-created billion dollar ethanol industry? Name one good thing that ethanol does for our fuel supply. I can name a half dozen major problems right off the top of my head, yet there is not even a hint of reason from the government as they move to increase ethanol requirements in fuel to 15% and put all of us out of business.

 

[gf beranek]

I recall a time when a young untrained lad leaned over the chute to push in a sprig inches from the blades, drum chipper...

Normally with that machine running any person would not have heard me yell, but the kid did, and turned to look up at me 40 feet away and above him. I literally screamed, "Heeeeyyyyy!!! Don't do that!! Do not reach inside that chute,,, everrrrrr!"

You could tell by the looks in his eyes I left an lasting impression.

The thing about it was the kid was doing exactly what he saw the other crew member doing, who was old enough to know better and you couldn't break his bad habits with a stick anyway. No matter either way, I wasn't going to let the kid get sucked into the same mindset.

The operator of the machine, also an experienced and highly qualified groundman under a climber, should never have allowed that kid to reach inside the chute.

That episode set the tone for the rest of the jobs there after with that crew.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Ok, I can accept that the government sticking it's fingers into just about anything is like peeing up wind. I dunno though, required training for safety, possibly I'm thinking about that aspect with more hopefulness.

Perhaps Burnham would care to offer his perceptions, as he is directly involved in required training for safety purposes, I believe. I don't doubt in the least that his instructions are advantageous, and outweigh the possible negatives, if any, regarding requirements.

Sorry, I missed Jerry's post, his experiences well taken too.

Cool discussion, thanks. Off to work.....

 

[Old Monkey]

When I was a firefighter, we had tougher standards associated with planes and helicopters than the private sector AND a better safety record. I think the Forest Service saw training program is great. Government does do somethings better than the private sector.

 

[gf beranek]

Well, you could train robots too.

 

[Fiddler]

For something like a chipper, I'd like to see a mandatory training program in operation, say a short low cost course where you get certified. Without the paper, no can run.

I know you guys aren't big on government intervention, but maybe in this case, considering the element of risk, and that some management doesn't offer proper instruction to newbies.

If a groundsman has not been signed off as qualified, by some one who is, on all of his chipper running parts of the company training book he has to carry with him in our company, he cannot run the chipper without direct supervision by someone who is a qualified operator.

It goes that way with every operation we run into in our job.

 

[DTW902]

When I was a firefighter, we had tougher standards associated with planes and helicopters than the private sector AND a better safety record. I think the Forest Service saw training program is great. Government does do somethings better than the private sector.

So Darin are you saying that you do not train your help! Or are you saying you want the government to train them for you. I would think as a business owner it would be in your best interest to train your people. It can be instructor led, written exam, just document it and put in there file. If you liked the forestry service training then you should use it in your business. Or are you wanting the government to force you to do the training????

 

[Old Monkey]

So Darin are you saying that you do not train your help! Or are you saying you want the government to train them for you. I would think as a business owner it would be in your best interest to train your people. It can be instructor led, written exam, just document it and put in there file. If you liked the forestry service training then you should use it in your business. Or are you wanting the government to force you to do the training????

I was just disagreeing that everything the government regulates fails. Personally, I hope we do not get heavily regulated as an industry. The way things are going, regulation is just a matter of time.

edit: I do train my guys. My old tree service told their guys not to push the brush through the chipper with their feet unless "they really had to." I don't get to train and oversee other services and their bad practices will effect me.

 

[squisher]

Well with the risk of sounding like an ass. If you can't look at a chipper and quite quickly figure out where the dangerous parts are then you'd better go work for another company cause I'm not interested. I'm a small company and I will only hire competent people. My uncle works for me and I've hired one young feller this year who's a junior hockey player. Took about five minutes and a signature to show him how to use the chipper. If you can't run/feed a chipper and finger it out you have no place on a tree crew imo.

 

[Fiddler]

agree.

 

[DTW902]

Thats the trouble you can't idiot proof every piece of equipment. Some folks just should not be around heavy dangerous equipment. Hell I am not a brain surgeon so you sure as hell wouldn't want me cutting into your head. If after a day or so you see they have no clue about there safety or others then send them on there way.
I was sure you trained your guys Darin, but no matter what field we are in none of us can control what other people, company's do. We are only in control of are own actions, and I for one don't want anyone working for or with me to get hurt.

 

[squisher]

Our job is dangerous and involved. That's why we can charge big bucks.

 

[NeTree]

I dunno about that...

It never ceases to amaze me, that people have no trouble shelling out hundreds and even thousands to a plumber, who shows up with $50 worth of tools and a beat-to-shit van, yet trifle us out of every last penny, when we roll up with hundreds of thousands invested in tools and vehicles and equipment to do a very dangerous job.

 

[squisher]

Lol. Those are the customers I pass on to my competitors.

 

[DTW902]

Hooooow much!!!! But it's just a tree....

 

[Strikermike]

Years ago I ran an auto dismantling operation. I once had to let go a nice hardworking kid just because he was accident prone. I was afraid he was going to get himself killed before his first week was through.

 

[thattreeguy]

big chippers with
little brains equal
medium sized chips
darwin awards awarded
posthumously

 

[Jonseredbred]

Years ago I ran an auto dismantling operation. I once had to let go a nice hardworking kid just because he was accident prone. I was afraid he was going to get himself killed before his first week was through.

I have a guy like that now.