Trees and Balance

[NickfromWI]

Only if you use tar sealant on all the pruning cuts

 

[sotc]

And slaughter cuts

 

[NickfromWI]

Oh that's the part I woulda messed up. Okay so I dip the brush into the tar, then into the slaughtered animal THEN onto the pruning cuts.

Got it.

 

[squisher]

And remember all spilled blood should be within the drip zone.

 

[NickfromWI]

Since we think most of the roots on the yard side are gone, we were planning on doing it out on the street. Do we need a permit for that?

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

What about mulch and water? (maybe gray water diversion or clean water diversion, like running the tap in the kitchen into a pitcher while waiting for warm/ cold water and the shower into a bucket. Decompaction?

 

[treegongfu]

It may go well for the tree but not the goat.

 

[Grendel]

They're all gonna die eventually. We should cut them all down now.

Ha, I've joked at fire safety meetings that we need to cut down all the trees within view. Every. Single. One.

Joking of course.

I think you're right about the sidewalk being the culprit Nick, it certainly fits with the die-back and as Stephan noticed, the good condition of the sidewalk. Abiotic is first place to look in most cases right? So if it's lost more than two main structural roots on one side, it is by the book, a candidate for removal. So figure they've already removed the structural support component when they did the sidewalk, and by removing the dead wood you would be removing the equalizing/balancing component, possibly leaving the tree in a very precarious position over a public street. Sprinkle in a few of whatever insidious beetle you guys are dealing with and that poor tree is in a rough way.

OTOH, It has a wide footprint on the good side, and would start working to balance itself out if it has the energy reserves/root structure. I bet it would stand for a long time like that.

But like you said Nick, it's up to the owner what to do with the tree. We're not doctors. I know I've done things that were not in the best interests of the tree. Both for money and for the owners peace of mind. I can't imagine your interactions with prospective clients are anything like your antics on this forum Jomo.

 

[Jomo]

This is a prime example of the expedient sales techniques dragging our industry down guys.

Even the friggin manufacturers of Tree Age specifically state that it's not to be used on trees infested over 50 percent!

What's the very first post in this thread tell us? That the stone pine mortality rate on this street's 50 percent, and this tree in particular's half dead, the dead half heavily infested by Ips beetles.

So to hell with the experts and their recommendations eh?

https://www.masterblasterhome.com/s...alifornia-Drought-Tree-Mortality-Meeting-2015

Step right up folks! Get your magical elixir oil here! Only 300 bucks a bottle!

Jomo

 

[NickfromWI]

The half we left was well OVER 75% alive. More than that even.

Oh well, the deed is done. We have already collected the few hundred dollars that we did the work for, rather than the few thousand that Jomoco would've milked her for if he removed the tree.

 

[Jomo]

I love the way you make two trees out of one to justify your sales pitch Nick.

Nevertheless, as long as you were up front with the customer about the tree's prospects of survival?

I've got no beef with you for trying to keep the tree alive for your client, who may be wealthy enough to gamble on long shots.

I'm probably one of the few arborists who's successfully eradicated an Ips beetle infested pine that was heavily infested.

I did it with carbaryl(Sevin dust). But it was done on a private property estate, for an extremely wealthy tree service owner I've known for three decades, at a considerable cost, 1500 bucks, on a relatively rare species of Jelecote pine, native to Mexico.

At the time this was done, about 12 years ago, using Sevin powder in the manner I did was actually illegal. Because it was an off label use of carbaryl, that has since been modified to a legal usage, as long as there is no drainage into rivers, streams and lakes, as carbaryl's toxic to fish.

But my method of wrapping the entire wood structure of the tree with Sevin impregnated burlap strips created a physical barrier that invading or emerging Ips beetles would have to pass through regardless of the tree's vitality?

Was the direct result of my conversations with two legends of the tree industry with tree orchard backgrounds. Richard Harris n Bob Bichowsky, who told me that in the 60's they'd paint the primary wood structures of orchard trees with the chemical Lindane to eradicate a wide range of wood boring insects. Essentially creating a toxic barrier that either infesting or emerging insects would have to pass through.

It was my idea to wrap the tree with Sevin impregnated burlap strips to create an extremely similar scenario for the bugs to deal with.

At any rate it worked, both for the tree service owner whose Jelecote pine was infested with Ips beetles, and the new owner of Bing Crosby's estate in Del mar, whose sycamores were infested with western flathead borers.

This is a pic taken last weekend of the Jelecote pine I saved.

We aren't that dissimilar Nick, and despite my history of being primarily a strategic takedown specialist? The chances are very good that I've done far more preservation work on trees designated as historic than you have my friend.

 

[NickfromWI]

So?

 

[sotc]

So bow down man, can't you see who this is?!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

 

[mdvaden]

For that tree, I'd remove it all.

If the customer wanted half of it left, I'd walk away from the project, because the remnant would be a goner in the near future and a potential hazard.

Even if the entire tree remained alive and did not have the infestation, it would still have been inherently weak.

That pine would actually be able to remain longer, if the dead section were stubbed to cable to. But that would look nasty and only last about 10 years. The removal would be on the horizon again.

 

[NickfromWI]

"Only ten years?"

By that time the property will change hands 2 or three times and new owners can make the final say if they want it gone.

If the client wants to keep it, why not?


love
nick

 

[DMc]

Conversely, what if each new homeowner that moved in wanted " their" trees removed? Given that people are in general idiots when it comes to understanding trees, I personally have a problem with their " rights " to have the final word in the management of long lived and often magnificent organisms we call trees.
I don't agree with saving this particular tree and being a boulevard tree it no doubt has some city protection against removal on a whim but it seems we will except " it's what the client wants " when it suits us.

 

[squisher]

Exactly. I used to tell clients that unless they had some type of experience or education in regards to trees they should be asking, not telling what should be done.

 

[treelooker]

Exactly. I used to tell clients that unless they had some type of experience or education in regards to trees they should be asking, not telling what should be done.

What he said.

Thanks jomo for sharing the lindane drench experience advised by the brilliant Dr. Harris, and your results. But it's too easy for us old farts to say they have out-saved the youngsters--Nick will pass us both up eventually.

Speaking of old farts, Mario and the others with their sage predictions of gloom need to stfu. Who knows what tomorrow might bring? (Lennon/McCartney).

 

[mdvaden]

What he said.

Thanks jomo for sharing the lindane drench experience advised by the brilliant Dr. Harris, and your results. But it's too easy for us old farts to say they have out-saved the youngsters--Nick will pass us both up eventually.

Speaking of old farts, Mario and the others with their sage predictions of gloom need to stfu. Who knows what tomorrow might bring? (Lennon/McCartney).

The best testimonials come from the trees themselves ... the living and deceased. Dr. Shigo did a fine piece of work compiling those testimonials that spanned decades or centuries.

In a nutshell, his reputation and what he said were not even his own. What he said was actually what the trees said. He merely uncovered, exposed or condense their testimonials and made it available.

On the other note, statements about extreme possibility are not predictions of gloom. If a tree is expected to die or break, its neither good nor bad. Trees have died and decayed for millions of years. The vanishing of one tree is a mere increase of organic matter for the next plants and microorganisms.

 

[DMc]

....Speaking of old farts, Mario and the others with their sage predictions of gloom need to stfu....

LOL! Life would be so much simpler and the discussions so much shorter if all the ignorant fools would just listen to you.

 

[Pelorus]

.........sage predictions of gloom..........
Whatever, Treelooker!!!
Am going to the TRAQ course being held this week in Cobourg (near Toronto), Ontario. Hoping the undertaking of same will make me less stupid, but it's a long shot.

 

[NickfromWI]

FWIW, I found the TRAQ course to be totally worth it. I hope you do, too!

Also, we had some huge winds come through last week. The tree hasn't fallen....yet

 

[mdvaden]

FWIW, I found the TRAQ course to be totally worth it. I hope you do, too!

Also, we had some huge winds come through last week. The tree hasn't fallen....yet

LOL

So its like Telperion-the-younger !!

Just a little ribbing there

 

[Pelorus]

Good one, Mario!
Shigo and Tolkien coauthoring a tree book could have been interesting.