Trees and Balance

[Jomo]

The point is a sincerely responsible arborist or doctor does what's best for the client, not his pocket.

Akin to keeping a brain dead patient alive to milk the system.

It's putting morals n ethics into your business conduct guys.

Are you in SoCal guys? Do you realize how many beetle kill stone pines there are here recently?

Do you realize how many millions of conifers have died in the west from the Ipps beetle alone guys?

Jomo

 

[MasterBlaster]

We all know your are "Jomo."

There is no need to remind us @ the end of every post.

 

[NickfromWI]

Wow you're so smart. No $#!+ sherlock. But you're assuming that's what's best for the client and what's the cheapest are the same thing. Some clients want cheapest cost. Some want whatever yields the most shade. Some want lollipop trees. Some want to hold on to a tree forever. I advise them. They decide. In this instance they have decided they much prefer to keep the live half of the tree, rather than pay $2,000 to remove it, another $500-700 to stump grind it and haul out the stump grindings, and another $1,000 to have a good sized 24" stone pine brought back in.

We all know about the trees dying from bark beetles. That really doesn't have anything to do with this conversation. Do you want to walk up and down this street and find the trees that look AMAZING...then look down and see the arbor plugs at the base of the tree? Those are the ones that I injected. We're not managing millions. We're managing one at a time.

I think you are ripping off your customers by making them cut their trees down preemptively. You need to consider morals and ethics and stump milking your customers for as much money as you can. Improve your skills as an arborist and stop relying on you chainsaw to fix your problems. Do you even SoCal bro?

love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

Are you an arborist or a carnival barker my friend?

Jomo

Shush. The grown ups are talking.

Tress shouldn't be hanging over the street...

Why not? This whole street is lined with pines that arch over the street. They are being lopped down left and right. If we were to cut down all the trees that overhang the street, the street would be empty. Here's a look from up the street a bit.

View attachment 64247

Let's get back to the question: how is one side of the tree holding up the other side of the tree? I think a lot of times we are making decisions of structure based on the visual feel

love
nick

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I think about this situation with other trees, frequently enough to want more input. Suppose a co-dom breaks (arbitrarily) 10-20% up from the crotch. Does the other side weaken if the tree is retained with that stub in a signficant way, provided its a good compartmentalizer, like doug-fir?

 

[Jomo]

I suggest you re read your first post bro.

Have you found a way to stop bark beetles your local county ag path lab doesn't know about?

You're promising the moon for X amount of money, and can't deliver.

You're taking a 2K removal and milking it for 3K, and creating a liability until that tree's gone IMO.

Jomo

 

[Pelorus]

Nick, I'm rather suprised this tree is the owner's responsibility, and not the city, esp. considering the tree is located between the city owned sidewalk and the street, along with associated underground sewage, water, phone, electric, gas lines, etc.
Not familiar with your pine species, nor the bug that is eating them, but if I got (forced at gunpoint) to undertake your assignment, I reckon I'd want to reduce some of that tree hanging out into the street. Heck, mebbe even run a cable(s) to a deadman or two planted deep in the owner's lawn near the house. And then plant some kind of creeping vine or morning glory to envelop the cables. Could look downright interesting the time I got done with that tree.

 

[Pelorus]

btw, (and certainly not to encourage you, Jomo ), but I also think the tree should get whacked.
Then again, whacking trees is my modus operandi.

 

[NickfromWI]

Have you found a way to stop bark beetles your local county ag path lab doesn't know about?

I use legal chemicals available here in california and apply as per the directions. Emamectin benzoate is FOR pine bark beetles.

You're promising the moon for X amount of money, and can't deliver.

You don't know what I can and can't deliver. Stick to what you know- how to charge people to cut down their trees.

Nick, I'm rather suprised this tree is the owner's responsibility, and not the city,....

That is just how things work in Los Angeles. The tree is owned by the city, but maintenance is responsibility of the home owner. The city won't spend a dollar on this tree until it falls into the street. Even then it's a toss up.

btw, (and certainly not to encourage you, Jomo ), but I also think the tree should get whacked.
Then again, whacking trees is my modus operandi.

I'm not saying I disagree...but....why? I don't think the left side is helping the right side out right now....other than maybe blocking a teeny tiny bit of wind. So how would cutting the red side down hurt anything?

 

[Jomo]

I use legal chemicals available here in california and apply as per the directions. Emamectin benzoate is FOR pine bark beetles.

But what do the experts with PhD's in plant pathology recommend Nick?

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7421.html

The exact opposite of you?

According to them leaving an infested tree rather than promptly removing it only exacerbates the problem in that area.

Jomo

 

[BOTS]

If the roots are fine then yes cut the dead side off, leave street side

its a short pine with a fat trunk not a lot of leverage

 

[NickfromWI]

Jomo- that link you posted says right at the top- LAST UPDATED IN NOVEMBER....OF 2008!!!!!

Maybe you need to get out there and earn a couple CEUs on a topic before you start preaching about it. I know it work. We have clients with stands of canary island pines that cross property lines. You can go see the trees that WEREN'T on our clients properties are standing dead...but our injected tree are just standing there like, "what bark beetles?"

I want so bad to put you on ignore...but it's so fun to swat down your comical attempts at belittling a fellow tree guy. We're all in this together. There's potential for good conversation here. I think this is a neat topic- the idea of tree parts holding each other up. But you're muckin up the works here.

 

[MasterBlaster]

He's a muckerupper, for sure.

 

[Jomo]

I just attended a seminar given by our county plant pathologist Nick, and she assures me nothing's changed on the Ips beetle scene, you're just prolonging the inevitable, for profit.

Don't feel lonely, there are lots of so called arborists doing exactly what you're doing.

I just ain't one of em. I give it to my clients straight up with no snake oil.

Jomo

 

[NickfromWI]

You don't need snake oil. You just need bar oil and whatever lube you use to get the money out of their hands.

I'm glad your county plant pathologist has assured you. My sexy living trees surrounded by brown pines assure me that I'm right. That's straight up. No snake oil.

Love you, toots.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Pelorus all the street trees (responsibility of) in CA was given over to the property owner here at one point some years ago. If those trees lift sidewalk the property owner is also responsible for thousands in sidewalk repair. I can't believe that one got through the courts.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Nick aren't injections protecting the tree for 3 to 4 years at a time?

I don't want to deal with the chemicals but, I have tried to find a good company near me that I could refer people to.

 

[NickfromWI]

The official number is 2 years of protection...but if you call the company and ask the techs directly they tell you it's more like 3 or 4 years.

 

[Jomo]

Your mistake is in trying to treat an already infested n half dead tree Nick.

Those injectables are meant to be used on healthy trees to prevent infestations, not cure an already infested tree.

From 2014

Circumstances for Effective Use of Insecticides
Highly valued, uninfested host trees may be protected by spraying their bark with a persistent, registered insecticide labeled as a preventive spray for bark beetles. Look for signs of recent infestation to help decide whether preventive spraying of nearby, lightly attacked or unattacked trees may be justified. Spraying a persistent insecticide on valuable, uninfested host trees near infested trees may be warranted to protect uninfested host trees from bark beetles. However, do not substitute preventive sprays for proper cultural care. The infestation status of a tree can be determined by inspecting the trunk or limbs for fresh pitch tubes or frass; peeling a small portion of the outer bark from the trunk or limbs and looking for signs of adult beetles or larvae; and inspecting the foliage for yellow or yellow-green needles or leaves. Frequently the infestation is diagnosed after the beetles have vacated the tree. For example, when reddish brown foliage is observed the tree is dead and the new generation of bark beetles has already emerged from the tree. Fading foliage throughout the tree crown indicates a dead tree and no insecticide treatment will be effective. Because each bark beetle species attacks only certain tree species, spray only healthy trees that are susceptible to the beetle species attacking nearby trees (for example, pine bark beetles do not attack oaks and oak bark beetles do not attack pines) (Table 1). Insecticide sprays are not recommended against shothole borer and cedar or cypress bark beetles.

Jomo

 

[NickfromWI]

I'm not using an insecticide spray. Go start another thread about spraying or injecting trees so I can go muck it up. You're annoying like a little kid that was never taught good manners.


love
nick

 

[Merle Nelson]

In answer to your Original Post Nick yeah removing the dead/near dead will make a difference. Get into a balanced pose (think Yoga) mimicking the picture of the tree. Most of your body and trunk off to the right like the live side of the tree. One leg back out further to the left like the dead side. Now pull your one leg into the midpoint to mimic removal of dead weight from the equation.

You're going to fall over unless you do something to balance out the forces.

 

[Jomo]

So you only want input from arbs who agree with you, who believe an injectable so can save an already infested tree?

Where's your love for the bees bro?

I'm the only arb suggesting removal's the wise course?

Jomo

 

[NickfromWI]

I'm the only arb suggesting removal's the wise course?

Jomo

They're all gonna die eventually. We should cut them all down now.


love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

Merle I think what you're taking about is how most of us see it. But in your analogy, "the leg bone is connected to the knee bone" and so on. But in this situation, I don't think the two sides are connected that well, if at all.


love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

So you only want input from arbs who agree with you,

No. But you're so annoying that no mater what you say, it makes me have to fight it tooth and nail.


love
nick