Topping Harms Trees

[MasterBlaster]

But this is still going on every day in Queensland.

What is that???

 

[Steve Mack]

Usually two dozers and one chain, takes everything then it's burnt.

The trees I've seen destroyed you wouldn't believe, just dozed up and burnt. Some great timber that won't be back just wasted.

I don't follow the logic? It's ok to top trees because worse things are happening? That kind of logic seems to be a slippery slope.

No I don't mean that, I don't think topping is a good idea especially on certain species and I don't do it unless I know the tree is going to go soon anyway. It's the uproar about it whenever it's mentioned. People run around here screaming about topped trees and introducing big fines for it and just up the road a few miles they're dozing up what's left of a forest that's been here for thousands of years. But that doesn't matter because they're going to build a big house with air conditioning and a triple garage with no room left for more than a pot plant.

Never thought we'd ever have another topping thread, it's caused a problem or two before if I remember correctly.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

No, its ok to top trees because it doesn't really matter.

Like I said, most arborists are more than happy to fell perfectly healthy trees. Whats the difference?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Well, with topped trees it can really look like crap for a long time, and that reminds of the wastefulness. With removals, you can reminisce about what was once attractive, but the image fades and you don't really get reminded. One difference in the resulting consequence.

 

[Mick!]

There you go it "can" look like crap for a long time, but it can also look fine as long as it's the right sort of tree.
"Reminds of the wastefulness" that's gobbledygook.
The only people who really get offended are tree people who have been indoctrinated that it's a bad thing,
The public are fine with a scalped tree and enjoy the cycle of regrowth. It's only some arboriculturalists who have this dogma about reducing trees so they don't look like they've been touched. You see it a lot on reduction threads, bloke tickles a tree, basically looks unchanged, says how the ignorant client was and that he wanted more off, then all his mates chip in saying what a great job it was and that the client should be "educated" Makes my blood boil.
Now I'll qualify this, on maybe 2percent of urban trees, vet oaks and the like, sure, easy does it. But applying this stuff to the rest of the amenity trees in gardens and parks is nuts.

 

[Jomo]

That's not true, since primary growth can be proven far more strongly attached than secondary or any tertiary growth is.

Once you start gettin whackish, you better keep on whackin on a regular basis, or somethin's gonna break and bonk you.

There is a science involved here yu know.

Jomo

 

[Mick!]

Sure do it once, then do it again after a few years when it becomes too big. It's called tree work.

 

[Jomo]

No, it's the line between pros who understand topping creates a ticking time bomb, and relay that fact to each customer, with the clear understanding that without bi-annual follow up topping, they are creating a hazard.

One. Leaving the tree alone, rather than whackin it in half, is the more cost effective maintenance plan.

Just be honest about it for goodness sakes.

Topping guarantees repeat customers, fine, so be it.

There's an irony bout this biz that's bringing it down like a cancer.

The ability to fine prune a huge 165 foot euc without gaffs takes a lot of pure physical strength and stamina, and few climbers can do it on a production basis without gaffs.

The owners of these companies get so concerned about production quotas and accident liabilities for their best climbers that they wink and look the other way with the understanding that what no inspector sees no inspector knows.

The days of takin enough time to prune trees to class one standards without any rush or pressure have become a thing of the past, commercially speaking anyway, imo

 

[Mick!]

Ticking time bomb= ridiculous hyperbole.
Bi annual follow up topping. Twice a year!? Are you sure?
I'm not guaranteeing repeat customers I'm just doing as they ask and giving them light, satellite signal! some peace of mind, in 5 or ten years when they need doing again, I could be retired or dead or they won't even remember who did it.

 

[Jomo]

I meant every other year, sorry.

Jomo

 

[woodworkingboy]

i'm not so clear on how things are in other countries, but where I reside, lots of people pay a good amount of money to have highly skilled gardeners come onto their property to prune and shape the trees and bushes growing there, and sometimes remove and replant. It can range from minutely manicured, to a very natural appearing arrangement. It isn't like some stipend per month to simply mow the lawn, and most homes don't have lawns. If assisting them, even if you slightly bruise the bark with a rake or something, they can get quite upset, I learned from experience. It is an old practice, keeping places in very good shape for the pleasure of the residents, and gardeners are one of the more esteemed manual trades. Culturally related activities can be tied to it, like the tea ceremony, or even suicide when such was a more established activity associated with the norms of daily life for a certain part of the population. Writing poetry or painting...it runs the gamut. I don't understand what would make you say that nobody but indoctrinated tree guys would have some sensitivity to poorly attended to trees, etc. Not the people that hire them, and excluding the indoctrination part?

There are other folks that look at things, and many have lived their entire lengthy lives in the location where they we born, so are pretty aware of changes to the environment that may take place. Some can be quite demanding. There is also a layman's association here that goes around preparing trees for the coming winter, etc., volunteers that help promote a good natural environment at municipal public locations within the town. i see them out and about doing tasks sometimes, if only tidying up. They are pretty savvy about tree related matters, apparently enjoy looking at gardens or whatever that are well maintained, getting involved with it themselves, and folks from different walks of life, not much formally trained in arborist work, but having learned through their interest. A gardner friend sometimes instructs them. I don't see the situation being as crude as you describe when it comes to recognition of attractive or not so trees, and not many people in general wishing to promote good judgement about it. Are there blind people that still drive to work, so to speak a certain segment of the population? Certainly yes, but all in all, it doesn't seem so complicated about recognizing good tree work or not, at least in some locations when tradition or interest is there. It is probably better to keep your often shown negativity to your own street or neighborhood in France or wherever you frequent, maybe the entire country that you know, or to reflect that way on the people that hire you because they know that you will do work that they want.

I did not say that all trees look bad when topped, that would be a ludicrous statement. What is the problem with saying that a poorly managed tree, topped or otherwise, can reflect wastefulness, I don't understand your response to that either, aside from that for some reason my posts seem to disturb you, based on the language that you use when responding. My comments were not totally encompassing ones, simply pointing out some differences with removed trees and ones that have been poorly looked after and that are still standing.

 

[Bermy]

Wow this is the closest we've come to an argument in YEARS!

Let's keep it to restrained disagreement...
Topping a tree that poses no risk to property or life...fine let 'er go. Deliberately topping a tree in a restricted residential environment, not so advisable. Topping as an accepted practice, well that's been done to death by many experts and many forums

However exceptions can be made, different trees will tolerate different abuse, but surely its up to us to be cognizent of what that difference is and do the best thing.
I've cut the tops out of Norfolk pines for height reduction...they take about five years to grow a replacement top from a bud at the nearest lateral...and hurricanes do the same thing to them as well. The last one I did actually had a taper in the branches to a point about half way up from a hurricane blowing all the branches off above a certain point about 6 yrs ago. Where I cut it, you can hardly tell from 30' away...the HO wanted to keep that one, I obliged.
Now, when said trees are really close to a house downwind of the prevailing direction of a hurricane, best to top that sucker 6" high...removal. The adjacent 5, 60' pines were all removed.

 

[Mick!]

i'm not so clear on how things are in other countries, but where I reside, lots of people pay a good amount of money to have highly skilled gardeners come onto their property to prune and shape the trees and bushes growing there, and sometimes remove and replant. It can range from minutely manicured, to a very natural appearing arrangement. It isn't like some stipend per month to simply mow the lawn, and most homes don't have lawns. If assisting them, even if you slightly bruise the bark with a rake or something, they can get quite upset, I learned from experience. It is an old practice, keeping places in very good shape for the pleasure of the residents, and gardeners are one of the more esteemed manual trades. Culturally related activities can be tied to it, like the tea ceremony, or even suicide when such was a more established activity associated with the norms of daily life for a certain part of the population. Writing poetry or painting...it runs the gamut. I don't understand what would make you say that nobody but indoctrinated tree guys would have some sensitivity to poorly attended to trees, etc. Not the people that hire them, and excluding the indoctrination part?

There are other folks that look at things, and many have lived their entire lengthy lives in the location where they we born, so are pretty aware of changes to the environment that may take place. Some can be quite demanding. There is also a layman's association here that goes around preparing trees for the coming winter, etc., volunteers that help promote a good natural environment at municipal public locations within the town. i see them out and about doing tasks sometimes, if only tidying up. They are pretty savvy about tree related matters, apparently enjoy looking at gardens or whatever that are well maintained, getting involved with it themselves, and folks from different walks of life, not much formally trained in arborist work, but having learned through their interest. A gardner friend sometimes instructs them. I don't see the situation being as crude as you describe when it comes to recognition of attractive or not so trees, and not many people in general wishing to promote good judgement about it. Are there blind people that still drive to work, so to speak a certain segment of the population? Certainly yes, but all in all, it doesn't seem so complicated about recognizing good tree work or not, at least in some locations when tradition or interest is there. It is probably better to keep your often shown negativity to your own street or neighborhood in France or wherever you frequent, maybe the entire country that you know, or to reflect that way on the people that hire you because they know that you will do work that they want.

I did not say that all trees look bad when topped, that would be a ludicrous statement. What is the problem with saying that a poorly managed tree, topped or otherwise, can reflect wastefulness, I don't understand your response to that either, aside from that for some reason my posts seem to disturb you, based on the language that you use when responding. My comments were not totally encompassing ones, simply pointing out some differences with removed trees and ones that have been poorly looked after and that are still standing.

I just said it was gobbledygook, 'cos it was,........"can reflect wastefulness" How?

 

[treelooker]

France arguing with Japan about aesthetics; not productive. If everyone has the same definition of Topping = "without regard to health and structure, often with internodal cuts"--there'd be less arguing.

In the below, the orange lines are a light reduction, with little decay or sprouting at the wounds. Revisit needed in ~5 years

The red lines are a heavy reduction, with some decay and sprouting expected. Revisit needed < 5 years to manage codominating sprouts.

The purple lines would result in heavy decay and sprouting. Some of them are between growth points, aka internodal. Revisit needed < 3 years, to manage sprouts and decay. I don't want to get banned, but the 'T" word might apply! Even if wildlife habitat is a primary objective, it seems to create a probable higher risk longterm.

This would reflect a waste of arboreal and human and economic resources, increase our carbon footprint, etc. So the practice seems wasteful, but that's not to judge the practitioners. Maybe they are just following orders. And the order-givers should not be judged; maybe they're just underinformed, and caught up in a cultural paradigm.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Guy, no need for argue is my point as well, pleasant enough discussion is cool. There are some major differences in the cultures though, French food will give you the gout, Jap cuisine won't, and how often is it that the French bathe...

 

[treelooker]

Guy, no need for argue is my point as well, pleasant enough discussion is cool. There are some differences in the culture though, French food will give you the gout, Jap cuisine won't, and how often is it that the French bathe...

Yo nipponer dude, my name means "Better" in French; my ancestors are from Bretagne. No gout yet, and bathe twice on many days, thanks for asking. Japanese are just jealous because they are so short. Now let's be nice!

Where would gardeners there prune a damage-prone species like pecans--red, orange or purple? heck they're so small they could shinny out to the orange, eh?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Shinny? Ladders...they invented aluminum tripod pruning ladders. Some gardeners have four or five or more in their kit. Generally can figure that anyone driving around with at least three in their truck is a gardener, or a rich apple farmer. I don't believe that we have Pecan Trees here.

Now let's be nice!

Of course.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Mom and Dad had an ash that topped itself. It was a good tree that had a fork in it about seven feet up, with only two main limbs, shape of a Y. One limb snapped off, basically 50 percent of the tree. I know it is dangerous now but they want to keep it because the dang thing is still growing and seems quite healthy.

You think I should leave it alone or remove it? Are there any more options?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Jim, what makes you think it is dangerous?

 

[FireFighterZero]

Well, I suppose that it is no more dangerous than what it was before the limb snapped off, but now the only heavy limb is just kinda hanging out there in space. Seems very unbalanced.

 

[squisher]

Probably just needs to be topped.

Jk'ing.

You could post a pic of it and get a whole bunch of advice.

 

[FireFighterZero]

A splendid idea! I bought my wife a very expensive camera that she hardly uses. Gives me a good excuse to go have coffee with the folks!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

A tree is only as dangerous as how precious are it's targets........

 

[treelooker]

A tree is only as dangerous as how precious are it's targets........

This is true, IF one realizes that the tree itself has value and belongs to somebody and = property.

So, the tree is its own target. Which kind of throws the whole term into a loop. Potential consequences of failure is what matters.

Too often, a tree is much less dangerous than the arborist makes it sound. (not you Ed!)

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Sometimes topped trees are habitat...



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