Topping Harms Trees

[squisher]

I will top trees for money. I have no qualms whatsoever about doing so.

For real?

Knot eye.

 

[Tucker943]

Are the knobs all rotted out in trees that have been pollarded? Never seen a tree in person that I can remember that was a pollard job as opposed to a top job. Are they really different? Or is it just a top job that gets re-cut frequently. I know nothing about pollarding.

 

[squisher]

AKA; topping

Topping or Heading, is taking a branch back to a set point -and forgetting about it further.

The only difference with pollarding is it's managed every other growing season, back to the same cut. Tomāto - Tomäto

A pollard is started when the tree reaches the desired height/size. Topping is when you reduce back past a lateral 2/3rds the diameter of the stem being reduced.

Topping is brutalizing a tree if there's no justifiable reason for it.
Pol larding is a viable pruning/management options.

Point and cut? Not for me.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Pollarding seems like it is often done with more thought to fitting a tree into a specific growing environment, but also wanting to try and keep something in the way of sculptural qualities or interest. Often in the eye of the beholder. I recall seeing the practice being done in So. California along fence lines in back yards, kind of fashionable for a time. Probably a lot less you hear anyone say, "That is a beautiful topping job". Probably both are a step down in the rank of refinement when it comes to gardening, where removing and replanting is what is best done when something gets too large. Most folks don't have a budget to do that, or don't really know how a valuable garden is best maintained.

 

[Szajer]

EU has been using the practice of Pollarding for over 3 centuries. Started something along the lines of a certain king not allowing it's citizens to continue cutting down forests at the rate they were. So Pollarding became fashionable due to it lending many sucker branches for burning wood and feeding livestock the massive amounts of leaves it produced.

It was brought about due to necessity -not because it looks good or is good for the tree. Topping is exactly the same, but since we haven't adopted this practice of pollarding -once a tree is topped here, it's forgotten about. But it's the same.

 

[squisher]

Some topping that I've seen is a crime IMO. It'll never change if professionals keep indiscriminately topping because that's what the customer who usually knows squat about trees wants.

I let customers know in as nice a way as possible that unless they have some sort of experience or education in the field that when we stand their looking at their tree and listening to their concerns they should be asking me, not telling me, what needs to be done.

 

[squisher]

EU has been using the practice of Pollarding for over 3 centuries. Started something along the lines of a certain king not allowing it's citizens to continue cutting down forests at the rate they were. So Pollarding became fashionable due to it lending many sucker branches for burning wood and feeding livestock the massive amounts of leaves it produced.

It was brought about due to necessity -not because it looks good or is good for the tree. Topping is exactly the same, but since we haven't adopted this practice of pollarding -once a tree is topped here, it's forgotten about. But it's the same.

You musta missed my reply to your previous post. Topping and pollarding are not the same. Not even close.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Both are equal is like saying that every tree that is cut back is the same. Some pruners look primarily to the immediacy of the needs of the situation at that time, others have a thought to also how things are going to shape up in the future and include it in a maintenance plan. A completely different level of knowledge and skill, or trade really. Maintaining ornamentation is a big difference in approach. Simple is best is some religious fervor that unfortunately gets applied to trees.

 

[Szajer]

You musta missed my reply to your previous post. Topping and pollarding are not the same. Not even close.

I did see that. But again, they are no different in "essence." The only difference is -one is maintained, the other disregarded after the first butchery.

 

[rumination]

The only difference is -one is maintained, the other disregarded after the first butchery.

That is not the only difference. A properly pollarded tree will not be headed back until a certain point in its life, and the resultant branch structure will be carefully considered at that time. Pollarding is generally only done with species that are tolerant (or even like) the practice. I'm not an expert on the practice, but as I understand it there will be little to no decay at the pollard heads on a properly maintained pollard.

 

[squisher]

The size of the initial cut.

Again a pollard is started when the tree reaches the desired size/shape. One small cut is made, then every year or few many small cuts are made. Knuckles are formed. Topping is a big cut, when a tree is reduced to or past a lateral smaller than 2/3rd the diameter of the stem. And more often then not brutal topping is reduced way past that threshold and cut to a indiscriminate spot. Often with big cuts into large wood. Much harder for the tree to heal from.

You can keep saying it's the same. But it's not.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Hyundai and Masereati are in "essence", both cars. Few would disagree that there is relatively little else that really associates them. One has extreme attention to details, the other most people can afford.

 

[rumination]

You said it better than me, Squish.

 

[Szajer]

Yoi Yoi Yoi! Alright, answer this question, please.

So you make the decision -on a tree as to where to cut it- and you do it "anywhere" on the branch you deem appropriate, but the cut is not done as taught by the current ISA standards, just a simple lobbing off the end.

No bringing the cut back and angling to an appropriate sized limb nor bud shoot, just simply cutting it straight off; "is called what?"

 

[rumination]

That's a heading cut, in my personal nomenclature.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I call them "rice farmer's" cuts.

 

[squisher]

A stub if I'm reading it right? Species and further butchering dependent it may throw suckers or dieback to the next lateral or main stem.

A ugly unhealthy cut not likely to heal over easily or well.

 

[Bixler]

hacking!

 

[Szajer]

That's a heading cut, in my personal nomenclature.

And as stated by Sharon Lilly, heading, hat racking, topping, all the same.

A stub if I'm reading it right? Species and further butchering dependent it may throw suckers or dieback to the next lateral or main stem.

A ugly unhealthy cut not likely to heal over easily or well.

But I'm asking about cutting "anywhere" on the branch, not just one part that will leave a giant wound not easily healed.

What would you call that cut?

 

[squisher]

You said it better than me, Squish.

I'd say you spoke to the initiation or planning of a pollard better than myself.

True pollards are rare in my locale anyways. Topping and the crappy aftermath of a 'tree' that's left behind runs rampant though. I've cleaned up the mess years afterwards many many times.

 

[squisher]

And as stated by Sharon Lilly, heading, hat racking, topping, all the same.


But I'm asking about cutting "anywhere" on the branch, not just one part that will leave a giant wound not easily healed.

What would you call that cut?

Just what I said. The indiscriminate anywhere on the branch smaller cut is what I'd call a stub. Or a shot in the dark.

 

[squisher]

Like Jay said. To me sounds like the homeowner cut, often made upwards in a tree to about ladder height or so.

 

[rumination]

And as stated by Sharon Lilly, heading, hat racking, topping, all the same.

I heartily disagree with that. Heading cuts have their place in different pruning systems, and are not necessarily equal to topping, although topping does employ heavy indiscriminate heading cuts.

Training of young nursery trees and storm restoration are just two examples of situations where heading cuts are appropriate.

Pollarding is another. Just because you don't like the way it looks doesn't mean it isn't a viable pruning system. Compare a tree that was topped 50 years ago and subsequently neglected to one that was pollarded 50 years ago and properly maintained. The difference is very clear.

 

[Szajer]

And I've stated the same also.

But what I've added was the difference was; "One is managed over time, the latter, isn't." But BOTH are a stubbing of the branch.

 

[squisher]

I'll put it like this. If you made 'stubbing' cuts the size of a true pollard stub cut on a mature tree? You'd have a hell of a time trying to top it.