rfwoody
Treehouser
Thanks, MasterBlaster!!
The official "Welcome New Members" thread!
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MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
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rfwoody
Treehouser
Yes, Peter; same here. Fatigue is something I try to be aware of in my mind all the time while working with or doing anything dangerous (chainsaws, falling or cutting trees, etc.).
At this point, since I am in a situation where I am not normally under the gun to complete a task or job (e.g. as a production tree worker might be), I have the luxury to put down the chainsaw when I think I am getting fatigued and switch to do some other, safer task.
In fact I try to do organize my work where I can do the fatiguing, more dangerous stuff (or most of it) first, while I am fresh... then when I am tired, do the "safe" stuff like loading brush or logs or cleaning up, driving, etc.
Limbrat
TreeHouser
Everybody's different. An 83 year old gentleman here owns a yard business and works harder than just about anyone I know right through the heat of summer and never misses a beat. Personally, if it was something I wanted to pursue and my body was capable, I'd go for it.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
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Yard work can be tough, but it ain't climbing.
I'm sure it's partly because I don't do it all the time, but I think climbing has to be if not the hardest, then definitely one of the hardest things physically to do as a job. Depending on the work, rest can be few and far between, and you use muscles that you didn't know existed, not to mention the heat and hardship of getting water (takes wayyyyyyyyyy more effort than just walking over and turning on a hose.
Welcome to the house btw, if you want to pursue climbing, this is the place
Welcome to the house btw, if you want to pursue climbing, this is the place
rfwoody
Treehouser
Thanks a lot everyone to take the time to give your comments, advice, warnings, etc. to an old(er) newcomer.
I'm soaking it all in... haha, when I told a friend at church that I was planning on getting into the tree (removal) business he said "that's a young man's job!"
For me, at this point, it does seem to be a "race" against age and aging (reduced physical (and mental) capacity...more prone to injury...longer to recover from injury, etc.).
I do have the desire and "heart" for it I think... at least part-time at my own pace and m own schedule as business would permit.
My plan at this point (75%) is to go take the 5 day TCI Entry Level Tree Climbing Class for Tree Workers in Atlanta.... and see what happens. (Maybe at the least I can play around in my own trees).
... but if not climbing, there is still a lot to be done on the ground, right?
Again, thanks a lot to you seasoned Professionals for taking the time and interest to comment and counsel an aging "nooby"!!
I'm soaking it all in... haha, when I told a friend at church that I was planning on getting into the tree (removal) business he said "that's a young man's job!"
For me, at this point, it does seem to be a "race" against age and aging (reduced physical (and mental) capacity...more prone to injury...longer to recover from injury, etc.).
I do have the desire and "heart" for it I think... at least part-time at my own pace and m own schedule as business would permit.
My plan at this point (75%) is to go take the 5 day TCI Entry Level Tree Climbing Class for Tree Workers in Atlanta.... and see what happens. (Maybe at the least I can play around in my own trees).
... but if not climbing, there is still a lot to be done on the ground, right?
Again, thanks a lot to you seasoned Professionals for taking the time and interest to comment and counsel an aging "nooby"!!
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I have been climbing a long time, and trees for 10 years. Ground work is way harder if you're not using machines with engines. Moving wood is a machine job.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Learning to climb trees is great.
Doing put on ground only, no processing, no clean up, no low stumping type work is possible.
Woody, do you envision employees?
Doing put on ground only, no processing, no clean up, no low stumping type work is possible.
Woody, do you envision employees?
rfwoody
Treehouser
SeanKroll, I do not envision employees, unless possibly my 25 year old son helping me part time.
My main, practical roll model in this is a hard working fellow a couple younger than me that I discovered and follow on Youtube, Tim H. Gruchow.
He is a one-man operation with a pickup truck and a 14' double axle trailer.
He does tree removals (climbing many of them) and firewood sales.
The no cleanup part is really appealing, haha.
Because that is by far the hardest part of the job from the things I have done so far.
And since at this point I only have my 8' pickup truck bed, it can take a lot of trips.... and if the job site is very far away from my the dumping site it takes a lot of time.
My main, practical roll model in this is a hard working fellow a couple younger than me that I discovered and follow on Youtube, Tim H. Gruchow.
He is a one-man operation with a pickup truck and a 14' double axle trailer.
He does tree removals (climbing many of them) and firewood sales.
The no cleanup part is really appealing, haha.
Because that is by far the hardest part of the job from the things I have done so far.
And since at this point I only have my 8' pickup truck bed, it can take a lot of trips.... and if the job site is very far away from my the dumping site it takes a lot of time.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Dollars per effort, making the right things go from where they're attached to a tree, to the ground, to firewood rounds, to split firewood delivered goes downhill fast.
More money in pruning than removal.
More money in removal than cleaning up.
More money in cleaning up than hauling off and disposing of brush and selling firewood rounds once moved off-site.
I give firewood away unless it's for family or friends. Sell logs as I can. Harvest figured wood and burls as I can.
More money in pruning than removal.
More money in removal than cleaning up.
More money in cleaning up than hauling off and disposing of brush and selling firewood rounds once moved off-site.
I give firewood away unless it's for family or friends. Sell logs as I can. Harvest figured wood and burls as I can.
Limbrat
TreeHouser
Without a little machinery, the fun will go out of tree work real fast Robert, especially this time of year. Make an old man out of you quick.
rfwoody
Treehouser
SeanKroll, Limbrat, Thanks for the professionally experienced comments!
Yes, I'm seeing that firewood sales might be approaching the 3 to 4 dollar an hour mark, haha.
More like mining for sand than mining for gold.
Yes, Limbrat, I hope after a few jobs I will get a more visceral sense of what machinery would be prudently to get.
The first thing I have been thinking about is a 14 or 16' trailer... to save trips. And it should also be much easier to load than into my pickup truck bed, which is pretty high off the ground.
Yes, I'm seeing that firewood sales might be approaching the 3 to 4 dollar an hour mark, haha.
More like mining for sand than mining for gold.
Yes, Limbrat, I hope after a few jobs I will get a more visceral sense of what machinery would be prudently to get.
The first thing I have been thinking about is a 14 or 16' trailer... to save trips. And it should also be much easier to load than into my pickup truck bed, which is pretty high off the ground.
Limbrat
TreeHouser
I would take a serious look at dump trailers Robert. It sure makes unloading a whole lot easier if you're doing everything by hand. Used ones that need a little TLC can sometimes be found for a song if you can weld and are mechanically inclined.
Burnham
Woods walker
Robert, it's not nice for me to rain on your parade, so please forgive this little bit of what some might call pessimism, and others might call reality...
You can not make any money sitting on your sofa and cruising the net, and you can not make any money hand cutting/splitting/loading and hopefully selling firewood.
The former is by far much less work, though. And it doesn't matter much if you are 63 or 23.
But if you are bound and determined, I honestly wish you good luck, and best wishes.
You will get as good advice to help you as can be had, right here in the TreeHouse.
You can not make any money sitting on your sofa and cruising the net, and you can not make any money hand cutting/splitting/loading and hopefully selling firewood.
The former is by far much less work, though. And it doesn't matter much if you are 63 or 23.
But if you are bound and determined, I honestly wish you good luck, and best wishes.
You will get as good advice to help you as can be had, right here in the TreeHouse.
rfwoody
Treehouser
Thanks Limbrat. I don't know how to weld and am a somewhat mechanically inclined... I will investigate dump trailers. Thanks!
Burnham, sir, THANKS a lot for your dose of reality and your candid, frank, seasoned, experienced, and perceptive words. -- haha, and I am prone to laziness.
"tree"/"wood" and physical kinds of things are what I enjoy doing (to a point ... i.e. of exhaustion).
So I'm pursuing this general direction and see what happens.
There is a verse in Genesis, paraphrased, "He being in the path, the LORD led him".
The application being, you are more likely to get where you want/need to be if you are doing *something* instead of sitting still waiting.
At this point I don't require a LOT of money, so I can do something sort of part-time as my age, etc. will allow.
BUT I am wanting to do what I do in a legitimate a manner as possible -- not "fly-by-night" or unethically undercutting hard working, full-time professionals.
(I bought GL insurance and have joined TCIA and ISA, and am reading up on tree pruning, etc.)
Burnham, and anyone else --- Please keep the advice, warnings, rebukes, criticisms, etc. coming. "a wise man loves those who rebuke him" -- I hope I will be in that category.
NOTE: haha, If it is high time I quit posting on this "Welcome New Members!" thread... and move on to other threads --- PLEASE LET ME KNOW
but I will read, try to absorb, and respond as long as anyone says anything to me
Burnham, sir, THANKS a lot for your dose of reality and your candid, frank, seasoned, experienced, and perceptive words. -- haha, and I am prone to laziness.
"tree"/"wood" and physical kinds of things are what I enjoy doing (to a point ... i.e. of exhaustion).
So I'm pursuing this general direction and see what happens.
There is a verse in Genesis, paraphrased, "He being in the path, the LORD led him".
The application being, you are more likely to get where you want/need to be if you are doing *something* instead of sitting still waiting.
At this point I don't require a LOT of money, so I can do something sort of part-time as my age, etc. will allow.
BUT I am wanting to do what I do in a legitimate a manner as possible -- not "fly-by-night" or unethically undercutting hard working, full-time professionals.
(I bought GL insurance and have joined TCIA and ISA, and am reading up on tree pruning, etc.)
Burnham, and anyone else --- Please keep the advice, warnings, rebukes, criticisms, etc. coming. "a wise man loves those who rebuke him" -- I hope I will be in that category.
NOTE: haha, If it is high time I quit posting on this "Welcome New Members!" thread... and move on to other threads --- PLEASE LET ME KNOW
but I will read, try to absorb, and respond as long as anyone says anything to me
SeanKroll
Treehouser
If you're a legit professional (insured, tax paying), you really need to charge the same rates (as much as possible, as you are apples to oranges with your time factor) as the rest. You need that money. They need you to charge market value to prevent depressing market value.
Everyone underestimates at times, and customers often have a chance to choose who will underestimate the job the most, when it comes to removals, a demolition project. Remodeling a tree (pruning, and health care), calls for a better practitioner.
You can make money from being on the internet easier than tree work, as you're doing it at the moment. There are lots of ways. Picking up stuff on Craigslist for free and selling it (one's man's trash...).
You should become a remodeler. You don't start an excavation company with a shovel. You can dig out a pretty design in the dirt, calling it art, with a shovel, if you have a paying customer for your 'remodeling'.
Its way easier to snip, snip, snip, or climb a tree to remove a couple limbs, then cut up and load/ unload someone else's disorganized, piled messes.
Its always more work to load a customer's pile than one you piled, knowing its got to be loaded.
If we are forwarding brush piles by hand, or stacking at the front of the chipper, its organized for easy. One arm-load per pile, or stack right at the front of the chipper feed tray where the closest material is also on the top of the pile.
Wooden sidewalls for you truck would double or triple your capacity. Slashing the material down / 'chainsaw chipping' CAREFULLY, and without standing on the uncut material, will add capacity. A choker rope around the whole pile will let you pull it out, hopefully, with the push of the gas pedal. Are you unloading by hand. Way more work than loading. A flatbed trailer with removeable walls can allow it to be rolled off sideways, especially with the help of power on the rope. When most people here are using a rope, we mean a tree rigging rope that can handle the load. Beware of breaking ropes!
Everyone underestimates at times, and customers often have a chance to choose who will underestimate the job the most, when it comes to removals, a demolition project. Remodeling a tree (pruning, and health care), calls for a better practitioner.
You can make money from being on the internet easier than tree work, as you're doing it at the moment. There are lots of ways. Picking up stuff on Craigslist for free and selling it (one's man's trash...).
You should become a remodeler. You don't start an excavation company with a shovel. You can dig out a pretty design in the dirt, calling it art, with a shovel, if you have a paying customer for your 'remodeling'.
Its way easier to snip, snip, snip, or climb a tree to remove a couple limbs, then cut up and load/ unload someone else's disorganized, piled messes.
Its always more work to load a customer's pile than one you piled, knowing its got to be loaded.
If we are forwarding brush piles by hand, or stacking at the front of the chipper, its organized for easy. One arm-load per pile, or stack right at the front of the chipper feed tray where the closest material is also on the top of the pile.
Wooden sidewalls for you truck would double or triple your capacity. Slashing the material down / 'chainsaw chipping' CAREFULLY, and without standing on the uncut material, will add capacity. A choker rope around the whole pile will let you pull it out, hopefully, with the push of the gas pedal. Are you unloading by hand. Way more work than loading. A flatbed trailer with removeable walls can allow it to be rolled off sideways, especially with the help of power on the rope. When most people here are using a rope, we mean a tree rigging rope that can handle the load. Beware of breaking ropes!
rfwoody
Treehouser
Thanks SeanKroll,
Yes, insurance *and* taxes.
I am using a CPA and have gotten good basic advice about taxes, business expenses, etc.
I'm totally in tune with everything you are saying about the stacking, loading, unloading, etc. as I have gotten lots of experience in last year or so.
At 63 I am slowing down, including my thinking ... which means it takes me (even) longer to digest information than I did before... so I'm letting all this info soak in.
Can a self-educated person "trim" trees legitimately if they don't label themselves an "Arborist" ?
e.g. by basically following the basic methods of Alex Shigo ? (don't flush cut, don't cut the collar, don't leave stubs, etc.)?
I've got several years of experience trimming my own trees and I wonder if I could legitimately market this as long as it wasn't under false pretenses.
Yes, insurance *and* taxes.
I am using a CPA and have gotten good basic advice about taxes, business expenses, etc.
I'm totally in tune with everything you are saying about the stacking, loading, unloading, etc. as I have gotten lots of experience in last year or so.
At 63 I am slowing down, including my thinking
... which means it takes me (even) longer to digest information than I did before... so I'm letting all this info soak in.Can a self-educated person "trim" trees legitimately if they don't label themselves an "Arborist" ?
e.g. by basically following the basic methods of Alex Shigo ? (don't flush cut, don't cut the collar, don't leave stubs, etc.)?
I've got several years of experience trimming my own trees and I wonder if I could legitimately market this as long as it wasn't under false pretenses.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,744
Arborist is just a word.
I'm a treeman, for the most part.
I'm a treeman, for the most part.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Moi aussi.
rfwoody
Treehouser
Great. I believe in my own minor way I qualify as a treeman, in a sense as narrow or broad as my ability.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,747
Well there you go!
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Sounds like you have a lot more education than many who tout themselves as professional tree trimmers. So I'd say go for it as far as marketing trimming.
Self-taught is fine in this industry just don't make up what you don't know. Research it, learn, and ask here as you go.
Self-taught is fine in this industry just don't make up what you don't know. Research it, learn, and ask here as you go.
rfwoody
Treehouser
Thanks a lot, squisher!
Burnham
Woods walker
Da Squish has it right there.
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