The CMI EXPTWIN Ascender

[rangerdanger]

For those that are interested, I shot and uploaded my video of the new CMI EXPTWIN Ascenders. Since we lost the posts in the OCGD thread regarding this topic, I thought I would just start a new topic over on the new forum. Here it is:

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EDIT: It doesn't look like embedding working at the moment, so here is the link to the video. I'll leave the embed link up incase it somehow works for someone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFElGoAI4PI

 

[MasterBlaster]

The thread's not lost. ;>)

 

[Blinky]

Alrighty then, you sold me, just ordered one. You're getting big... in a good way, I mean... not gay.

Thanks Adrian.

 

[rangerdanger]

Haha, thanks Chip. Trying to lose some excess pounds in prep for the KY and Charlotte comp.

I'm uploading another quick video of me ascending and descending with these, so folks can get a look at how they work for foot locking.

 

[Burnham]

Thanks for the review and pics, A. Much appreciated.

We always have to remember that having the rope escape from the ascender nose/cam interface is not the only way that the ascender can lose it's grip on the rope. Debris can jam a cam open, or a cam pivot pin can fail. Both have been documented, I believe. I'm as happy as anyone to see an ascender that reduces the chances of failure...but I don't think risk has been eliminated with this new ascender.

In some ways, I can see the argument being made that the redundent cam latch mechanisms are more of a hassle operationally than backups developed for more conventional ascenders. And if the climber fails to clip the ring release into the ball pin, that is a real opportunity for accidentally allowing slippage even if the pin is in place to back the cam latch levers.

RD, does CMI offer this unit with double handles? Seems an obvious product for footlockers.

 

[rangerdanger]

Hey Burnham. One quick note about the ring release. In no way is it possible for to release it using the ring under any sort of load. Forgot to mention that in the video, so thought I would put it here.

As for other ways for the cam to not interface, I thought about trying to create something like the new Kong Double Handle Ascenders, where it has a plate on the top to prevent debris from entering the cams and jamming them up.

Also, to my knowledge, CMI only makes a single cam, dual handle one. But for foot locking double rope, its been argued that the single handle, dual cam is best, because of ergonomics and other aspects. Let me see if I can find the article Tree Machine wrote in the TCIA Magaizine and I'll post a link over here. In it, he describes the benefits to a single handle dual cam compared to a double handle, double/or single cam.

 

[rangerdanger]

Also, here is another video I've filmed the last two days. Shows these ascenders in action, with the foot lock method.

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EDIT: It may not have processed fully yet, so if you get an error message, thats why.

 

[Burnham]

You did put in a note about the cams not being able to release under load unless a lot of pressure was put on the ring. I buy that fine. But if the ring gets snagged on something (like your hand) during the upward movement of advancing the ascender up rope, and somehow stays pulled (like you keep hanging on for dear life), then it's freefall time, bro.

 

[Wagnaw]

I'll agree. I haven't found a double handle ascender I like, and using two hands on a single handed ascender always seemed a lot more ergonomically similar to regular footlocking. Those things look like they'd be great for working! You'd still probably have to do all kinds of crazy back-ups for competitions though...

However, I'm still a SRT no need to isolate a limb, just get up there and work, kind of dude anyway.



EDIT: That ring seems like a problem though. When you push up the ascender there is no load there, which creates a situation where the cams could be stuck open as a result of that ring getting caught on something while advancing the ascender. We'll see...

 

[rangerdanger]

Thanks guys. I'll probably make a habit now of just putting the ring on the ball lock pin, so there is no way for it to snag on anything and release.

And Wagnaw, they work great for SRT also

 

[Blinky]

If I remember right, the reason for the ring trigger is so you can actually work using the ascender rather than a hitch. I've never tried it but it does have possibilities for working the lower canopy on the way up.

To me, the CMI is a nice, professional grade ascender. Chances are good I'll still back it up with cords because I just trust cords more than mechs.

I'm pretty happy with a couple of Ascensions taped and shackled together but with Jared climbing and now I have another guy who wants to learn, I figure it's time for another rig. This is perfect since I've been using the doubled Ascensions for a couple of years now.

The CMI Expedition is available in 3 or 4 configurations, 2 singles (like the Petzls), a double handle single, (maybe) a double handle double and the single handle double which was designed specifically for arborists in large part because of TM's article. I think that kicks axe that CMI addressed this directly without trying to cover several markets with one device.

The single handle is much easier on my wrists than the double handle models. It feels a lot more natural to footlock with one arm at full extension while the other just helps with balance. It makes you use your legs more. I've yet to try an SRT climbing method that's as easy to me as this.

 

[rangerdanger]

Hey Blinky, just to clarify, the CMI models only come in the 2 singles(right and left), a double handle, single cam(known as the double expedition), and the new single handle, twin cam EXPTWIN.

Also agree with you on the foot locking part. The single handle feels way more natural to me than my Petzl Ascensions. Feels like I'm in proper form with the single handle.

 

[MooseHunter113]

does anyone know if Sherrill is carrying this? i would go to tree stuff but i get a discount through my work from sherrill. I really wanna give this bad boy a try. I just starting to get the hang of foot locking and it seems like i do better with a prusik but i still cant go very high without a break and when i use my friends double handled ascender it just doesnt feel good i seem to burn my arms out very quick (which doesnt happen as much with a prusik)

Great job Ranger you sold me on it within the first 3 minutes of the video.

 

[rangerdanger]

Cool moose, glad to hear it.

As for your question, Tree Stuff are the only ones currently carrying it. If I were you I,d just order from him, because in talking with him, he said he could be the only one selling these until CMI goes on to full scale production. Theory is CMI just made 50 to 100 of these as a test product to work out kinks and see how popular they are. Plus, his price is excellent and may be comparable to what you would pay at Sherrill with discount, since retail price is $164.95 from CMI and he charges $144.00.

 

[MooseHunter113]

Just put in my order for the EXPTWIN can't wait to try it out.

Ranger have you found out if it is necessary to back it up? I like the idea of being able to work the canopy on my way up if i want to and a couple Blake's hitches seem like they would get in the way.

 

[rangerdanger]

Hey Moose, as far as backing them up, I haven't found the need to. It's more a personal choice I believe with these ascenders. There is really no possible way for the rope to pop out of the cam.

 

[MooseHunter113]

from what i have seen in your video i feel the same way and personally would prefer not to. that alone is a selling point over the rest of the double handled ascenders not to mention i like the single handle better.

do you have any tips for me for when i get them?

 

[MooseHunter113]

so i took my exptwin to work today and caught some crap b/c of the 14.7kn breaking strength (3,300lbs) does anyone know if they meet the Ansi standard? Also most of the guys there use the kong twin or the ascentree which don't have a breaking strength on them.

 

[SkwerI]

I just love it when some saw jockey on a jobsite pretends to know more about a new piece of gear than the manufacturer selling it. Reminds me of that idiot at the climbing competition giving Paul a hard time about the 'bend radius' of the rope when installed on the Wraptor. :roll:

 

[TreeDimensional]

I tend to agree with you Brian, but then theres the Kong ring issues!

 

[MooseHunter113]

im looking at the ascentree manual and it says with the larger diameter rope it is 12kn and with smaller rope only 6kn ill be ready for it tomorrow!!

 

[littlenick]

ranger, how do you like your tree motion?

 

[rangerdanger]

The TreeMotion is an awesome saddle. I've been meaning to do a video review on it, but haven't had time yet. If you're willing to spend the money, I think u would love it. On that note though, the Sequoia is another great choice for a little less money. Truthfully, between the Sequoia and a TreeMotion, it'd be a toss up between the two. Depending on which Sequoia you get, they all have their advantages. If I were u, I would try to try both out and see what you think. If you talk to Luke at TreeStuff he could tell you more about these saddles and set u up with whatever one you want.

 

[rangerdanger]

Hey Moose, as far as breaking strength, I don't think it matter too much. I've taken mine to comps and caught no crap from them about the ratings. In reality, when you start putting that amount of force on the rope with a toothed/cammed ascender, you're going to start stripping the cover from the core or possibly cutting through them completely.

 

[littlenick]

The TreeMotion is an awesome saddle. I've been meaning to do a video review on it, but haven't had time yet. If you're willing to spend the money, I think u would love it. On that note though, the Sequoia is another great choice for a little less money. Truthfully, between the Sequoia and a TreeMotion, it'd be a toss up between the two. Depending on which Sequoia you get, they all have their advantages. If I were u, I would try to try both out and see what you think. If you talk to Luke at TreeStuff he could tell you more about these saddles and set u up with whatever one you want.

Im glad you like it, i had a gift card to a local store so i ordered the tree motion. I cant wait till it gets in!