Someone Might Care... Who Knows?

[Cold Logging]

The wobbling into the cut is from not enough joint . With chisel grinders, if you use a cluster dresser and just gently buff the stone back into shape with a stone that finishes well. And then just slowly, gently "bump" the cutter thru its grinding cycle, you can get a very fine finish on each tooth. I think the chain cuts faster and smoother that way
I really liked the Simington 451 for that. With its little 1/8 th hours motor, it didn't have the power to just hog out lots of tooth and over heat the cutters as easily as a 1/4 hp motor does.
Magnus ; you the man if you vertical file. I've done it and can do it with a new file. But it really takes some skill . And a good pair of gloves!!!!!!
When I file with a 3 corner chisel bit file. I first give a few strokes taking out the gullet. Then I hog out a bit inside the tooth then I finish the tooth. . The sharpest chains I've ever put up were with a 3 corner chisel bit file and a filing vise/jig
Made from a bar with 4 legs welded on made from 1/2 ton pickup leaf springs. Foe a 36" chain I use about a 28" bar. Hard nose bars work best. Need enough droop in the chain so you can put your foot in the chain and hold it tight and use 2 hands on the file. And a short stool to sit at the right height of course.

 

[Magnus]

I rarely use gloves. One finger infront, one behind and light strokes.
It is not needed a new file, just one that works as intended.

"Square filing" I do best with six sided flatfile. I tried most of them, but find that easiest. I want the corner to be strong with the top and side meeting there.
It is harder to do for me and result is wonderful, but for normal cutting I prefer round filing mostly becurse I am better at it so it is faster.

It is not that hard, a kid can do it, so I guess all can.

 

[pete mctree]

1) Filing vertical is with chains tooth standing on its end so to speak. If you have it on saw you simply hold the saw with tip pointing up.
Then file work its way back if toot naturally as it then is down and you have one less thing to think about.
If you place it correctly in front of you with tooth in appropriate height and saw in correct placement you don't need to worry about angle if wrist is locked.
Elbow and shoulder don't change angles either so as long as wrist is right and saw is placed correct you get same stroke each time you move.

I tried this this morning & the results were pleasing. Do you have a jig for sharpening like this ?

 

[pete mctree]

Forgot to add the pic

 

[old irish]

In big wood we used to grind the back or end of the tooth at a slight angle, like 45 degrees or so, to let it run free. That was with the older .404 chain, don't know about the newer style, but it can't hurt, since that part of the tooth gets tossed anyway.

 

[Magnus]

Not to bad, Pete.
Surface look a bit ruff, but if all cutters are like this it should cut decently. Ruff surface is when file is grinding more than cutting.
I clean the files in the most aggressive substance I can buy easily, commercial gasoline.
When the file is clean but no bite still i dip it in Apple cider vinegar and it is like new again.

To prevent file to get crap pushed in it I do one stroke to clean tooth, twist it 1/3 or 1/2 a turn then file the rest. After I wipe of crap and burr and get to next tooth.

 

[Magnus]

old irish.
I heard this many times and tried it on older .404 , 7/16 and Half inch chains.
One some chains with long cutters with little or no back lean I think it did some good, but noticed no difference at all on the chains sold after 1975.

Here we bore cut a lot... Bar nose width I think has more to do with it than the chain actually.

 

[pete mctree]

Not to bad, Pete.
Surface look a bit ruff, but if all cutters are like this it should cut decently. Ruff surface is when file is grinding more than cutting.
I clean the files in the most aggressive substance I can buy easily, commercial gasoline.
When the file is clean but no bite still i dip it in Apple cider vinegar and it is like new again.

To prevent file to get crap pushed in it I do one stroke to clean tooth, twist it 1/3 or 1/2 a turn then file the rest. After I wipe of crap and burr and get to next tooth.

Thanks, I appreciate the input & will post back my attempts later in the week

 

[Mick!]

I haven't kept up with this thread, but I seem to remember posting earlier about poor results on my part on some chains.
Anyhow on my 288 and 372 I said to myself "bollocks to it" listened to some advice on here and got new bars.
Et voila, problem solved, cutting as they ought to.
Guide bars.......they don't last for ever.

 

[Magnus]

If it is laminated bars there is not much to do.
Solid bars however you can keep alive for a very long time.
Grind rails, recut groove, change sprocket...

 

[Mick!]

TBH Magnus, I'd rather just buy new ones.

Arborist/tree surgeons/loppers prefer to spend our spare time down the pub talking ourselves up rather than doing basic maintenance

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

hahaha

 

[sotc]

I rarely use gloves. One finger infront, one behind and light strokes.
It is not needed a new file, just one that works as intended.

"Square filing" I do best with six sided flatfile. I tried most of them, but find that easiest. I want the corner to be strong with the top and side meeting there.
It is harder to do for me and result is wonderful, but for normal cutting I prefer round filing mostly becurse I am better at it so it is faster.

It is not that hard, a kid can do it, so I guess all can.

View attachment 58964

He's filing inside out

 

[Jed]

The wobbling into the cut is from not enough joint . With chisel grinders, if you use a cluster dresser and just gently buff the stone back into shape with a stone that finishes well. And then just slowly, gently "bump" the cutter thru its grinding cycle, you can get a very fine finish on each tooth. I think the chain cuts faster and smoother that way
I really liked the Simington 451 for that. With its little 1/8 th hours motor, it didn't have the power to just hog out lots of tooth and over heat the cutters as easily as a 1/4 hp motor does.
Magnus ; you the man if you vertical file. I've done it and can do it with a new file. But it really takes some skill . And a good pair of gloves!!!!!!
When I file with a 3 corner chisel bit file. I first give a few strokes taking out the gullet. Then I hog out a bit inside the tooth then I finish the tooth. . The sharpest chains I've ever put up were with a 3 corner chisel bit file and a filing vise/jig
Made from a bar with 4 legs welded on made from 1/2 ton pickup leaf springs. Foe a 36" chain I use about a 28" bar. Hard nose bars work best. Need enough droop in the chain so you can put your foot in the chain and hold it tight and use 2 hands on the file. And a short stool to sit at the right height of course.

O.k... You're my new filing-shed guru. That jig idea is absolutely amazing. I used to do something similar, but your idea is way better. I also use to adhere to the practice of hogging out extra material with the hex. before placing the actual cutting-surface shaping strokes, but then for some reason, got away from it. I think that I got some erratic results for a while. No fun. So much depends on the files too. I fired Vialla. Those are complete trash, imo, because the "blanks" are not even symmetrical.

 

[Jed]

Not to bad, Pete.
Surface look a bit ruff, but if all cutters are like this it should cut decently. Ruff surface is when file is grinding more than cutting.
I clean the files in the most aggressive substance I can buy easily, commercial gasoline.
When the file is clean but no bite still i dip it in Apple cider vinegar and it is like new again.

To prevent file to get crap pushed in it I do one stroke to clean tooth, twist it 1/3 or 1/2 a turn then file the rest. After I wipe of crap and burr and get to next tooth.

O.k. I've been using a different kind of vinegar. How long do you soak your files in apple cider vin. for? I spray WD40 on mine after the vinegar to prevent further humid air corrosion.

By the way: your kid looks like he's going for 20 degree top plates with his round file. Was this his intention? I've done that a few times when I felt like I didn't have time to square file.

 

[Cold Logging]

For an, in the woods touch up file I like the Oberg double end file the best. !!!!
On the jig I prefer the 3 corner chisel bit file. . But being older now I just grind them.

 

[Jed]

Grinders rule... I'm just too poor. The Obergs are cool because they are the only file I know of whose teeth angle the same way regardless of whether you use it in the right or left hand. More consistency.

 

[Magnus]

O.k. I've been using a different kind of vinegar. How long do you soak your files in apple cider vin. for? I spray WD40 on mine after the vinegar to prevent further humid air corrosion.

By the way: your kid looks like he's going for 20 degree top plates with his round file. Was this his intention? I've done that a few times when I felt like I didn't have time to square file.

I dip them then put them with cutters up for 5min or so. Then blow it off with compressed air. I file much so no need for anti corrosion, it is just seconds away from a new round of filing.

I usually file 20-25 degrees as I run mostly hardwood and of that it is 90% Elm. This is not straight fibered wood as it twists and turns in trunk.
Filip just threw file up to sort of show what vertical means as many don't seem to know it.

 

[Magnus]

Not sure what this Oberg file is..
Öberg made the best files for a very long time and was first to sell chainsaw files with twisted cutters so it was not needed to twist vand in forward motion.
They made files for Jonsered partner and later Husqvarna once their production of saws was started.

 

[HolmenTree]

I just found this thread....the title didn't catch my attention.

On the original question about the filing stroke with the file handle held 10 degrees down, the same angle is also called "offset grinding" when a bench grinder is used to sharpen round ground chisel chain.
Oregon still uses the 10 degree filing spec, Stihl quit using it in the early mid '90s . My 1992 066 owners manual still specs the 10 down and with that they quote "to be used when frost is in wood".

It appears complaints on the effort on filing Stihl's heavier chain versus the competition caught up to them. They just went with hold the file level at 0 degrees on all round ground chisel chain. Which does reduce the effort of filing their chain some what.

Now back to the "frost in wood" statement, this also applies to dry wood.
What the 10 down does is it reduces side plate angle [hook] and thins the inside corner of the top plates cutting edge, which makes that edge less blunt along with a stronger less aggressive working corner on the opposite side of the top plates cutting edge.

This makes the Oregon chain cut smoother plus hold a better edge in frozen or dry wood.
With the thicker Stihl cutters and chassis the durability is not so much an issue....let's just make it a little easier to file.

 

[Cold Logging]

Not sure what this Oberg file is..
Öberg made the best files for a very long time and was first to sell chainsaw files with twisted cutters so it was not needed to twist vand in forward motion.
They made files for Jonsered partner and later Husqvarna once their production of saws was started.

Maybe there were 2 dots over the O. Don't remember. I think Madsen's still carries them. They were the single best quality chisel bit files available. . Lasted 3 times as long as Valhalla chisel bit files.
When I started chisel grinding it took me a couple years to get as good grinding as I could file. But grinding sure is nice if a chain hit a rock.

 

[Tucker943]

I might try to learn to square file chain. I think I can learn with enough time and practice. I'm a lousy climber, a worse groundman, a mediocre business owner, and can't pitch a baseball well. But I am the Grand Imperial Wizard of round filing and have been told so by many other professional loggers and tree rats alike. One hand, no file holder. I have a callous the size of a dime on the palm of my right hand there the point of the file rests and I apply pressure. I started filing at 10 or 11 years old and its pretty much the only thing I'm awesome at besides changing the clock on the radio in absolutely any make and model of vehicle.

 

[HolmenTree]

The only square filing I do is for timber sports and now started to use it on my Alaskan mill.
For a arb work chain in my opinion square is useless, the extra time you spend to square file or grind you could have touched up with a round file and still get more production.
Big bars big clean softwood with high stumps is where chisel bit belongs.

 

[old irish]

True that, Holmen.

 

[Magnus]

Valhalla files I never heard of either.
Wallorb did some pretty good files in past, but the ones I got the last years did not impress much.