No, have never used one.
Nice idea, Nutball
Yes Sean, the head scratchers must be bar related.
Someone Might Care... Who Knows?
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No, have never used one.
Nice idea, Nutball
Yes Sean, the head scratchers must be bar related.
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
Same here but I don’t have to send em out 😂 ... Was recently at a Local STIHL dealership shootin the breeze with the owner and he was telling me about a logger from PA who swore no one could touch his hand filed (RS sqr/rnd)round chain - The guy had a test log and the logger proudly cut a few cookies with his best hand filed chain , then they swapped a robot-ground chain (same STIHL RS sqr/rnd but only one sharpening ) , loggers chain was 1/2 spent so it should have cut quicker) ... The end result was the robot-ground chain was quicker and smoother ... The logger now has his chains touched up by the dealership !
SeanKroll
Treehouser
For $30-40 you can have a cheap one for rocked chains, to take off work-hardening, and get close to true.
You'll likely want to hand-file finish in a cheap grind job.
When I've had really dirty cutting, I popped the chain in the grinder, at the jobsite, multiple times rather than keep trashing different chains.
I've got lots of chains, and almost never change them over hand-filling.
When I really need the grinder it's there. I'll change chains.
I've hand-filed chains since my fourth tree...2003, IIRC.
You'll likely want to hand-file finish in a cheap grind job.
When I've had really dirty cutting, I popped the chain in the grinder, at the jobsite, multiple times rather than keep trashing different chains.
I've got lots of chains, and almost never change them over hand-filling.
When I really need the grinder it's there. I'll change chains.
I've hand-filed chains since my fourth tree...2003, IIRC.
Ed L
Treehouser
I use a Stihl bar mount jig to file, works great. When I really mess a chain up, it goes to my brother, uses a Stihl SG grinder. He's an artist with it, only person I've ever found that can sharpen as good as me with a grinder.
Thing is, he cuts a metric buttload of firewood, knows what works. To many guys sit in front of a grinder, never make a chip. Then they get all pissed off when you tell them they suck at grinding.
Ed
Thing is, he cuts a metric buttload of firewood, knows what works. To many guys sit in front of a grinder, never make a chip. Then they get all pissed off when you tell them they suck at grinding.
Ed
Nutball
TreeHouser
I used a tecomec grinder from 1998 or so, and it sucked. Completely non precision, it was all me. It took me 30-60min to grind a (14-28") chain to my minimum standards once I got it figured out.
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
I have a logosol robot grinder and can sharpen 10 teeth / min ... I usually do batches of 5-10 chains at a time as it only does one side at a time ... run your 5-10 chains thru one side only - then loosen head and reconfigure for other side and run the 5-10 chains ... It gets them EXTREMELY sharp , much sharper than I can get with even a new file ... You can do the rakers to .0005-.001 tolerance of each other by changing the wheel ...
Nutball
TreeHouser
Does it harden the teeth so you can't file them by hand? That would be my biggest concern. I'd also be conerned about a lack of tension on the chain allowing the teeth to rock back away from the wheel as I've had that happen sometimes, mainly because the rails didn't clamp a few DL's, they just clamped one. I'd also be concerned about the tooth vibrating around in the rails if it doesn't clamp them, though I imagine you can set the rails to be a tight fit. I also had a problem with the manual grinder where you'd flip the chain and holder around to do the other side, but it would be like 1/16" or whatever too far in or out of the tooth, so you'd have to reset by trial and error the chain advance gauge thingy, so the teeth would come out the same length. About the teeth hardening thing, what if someone gives you a poorly hand files chain (long & short teeth)? You set the grinder to go off the short teeth, but it will really take chunks out of the long ones. Or maybe start with the long ones until they are short enough to grind every tooth.
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Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
No it won’t work harden the teeth at all ... The teeth are held securely by a roller that holds it dead-nuts location wise (same spot ,each tooth can’t rock) and it’s a cam grinder which is very precise and can get each tooth and raker to .001 production .... .0002 if you let go around and “spark out” ... I can also change the “angle of attack” from the standard 30* to 0-10* for milling up to 40* for cutting soft woods ... I charge .10 per driver so a 3/8 .05 20” with 72 drivers is 7.20 ; a 3/8 .05 32” with 105 drivers 10.50 .... If the chain is hammered to the bejesus I charge another $5 “reconditioning fee”
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
That’s at 37* ... off the roll STIHL RS 3/8 .050 (30*) IF your saw has the stones to pull this more aggressive chain you’ll see quicker cut/cut ... Only downside is that it will dull a fuzz quicker
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Back when I was less skilled at filing I think I made a lot of 37 degree teeth - with no clue it was good, bad or ugly, right or wrong. All I knew was the edge felt sharp. I accidentally might have done something good.
To my understanding overheating a tooth edge during a grind takes the temper out, resulting in a softer edge (less durable). I think time, patience and light forces are always best on any grinder and result in a better edge.
Dark at 5:30 supper time.
To my understanding overheating a tooth edge during a grind takes the temper out, resulting in a softer edge (less durable). I think time, patience and light forces are always best on any grinder and result in a better edge.
Dark at 5:30 supper time.
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
The 37* angle will allow the saw to cut faster in softer wood (pine, poplar etc) provided the saw has enough balls to pull it ... The downside is less life (steeper angle) and will dull quicker ... I’ve used it in ash and it’s definitely faster than a 30* stock STIHL chain but doesn’t hold the edge quite as long
Nutball
TreeHouser
Grinding can overheat the tooth which is able to cool too fast and actually harden. Normally the teeth are not hardened and rely on the hard chrome top and side plate for sharpness durability. I haven't had much luck with angles sharper than 35deg, they just dull super fast. I cut wood faster when I'm not stopping to sharpen after every 1-10 cuts.
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
Grinding can overheat a tooth IF the wrong wheel is used ... The wheel on my unit is the manufactures recommended one ... never had a problem with work hardened teeth/ temper using the logosol grinder ... I cut wood faster with 30% faster saws
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
That’s fine if you are farting around in the yard. However , If you want to make a good hourly rate doing firewood , 70cc class saws and a kinetic splitter are a must
I was touching up 4 huskys today for Monday. I always use only a 7/32" file on them but today they looked like they needed a bit more hook and because they were -50% life left, it seemed like the 7/32 was almost too big to get in underneath and create more hook without cutting into base of tooth too much. So I grabbed a 11/64" on a whim and it seemed to fit in there nicely, eager to see how it cuts now.
stikine
Treehouser
yeah, when you get down to 50% you probably should drop down a file size to maintain proper angle
SeanKroll
Treehouser
The cheapo grinder will take off rocked, nail-cutting work hardening. One cutter side isn't the exact size as the other, so I adjust for it, advancing one side a hair farther forward. It was given to more 13 years ago
If you can't hand-file, it won't be great. If you can, you will have an eye for it, and will be able to make it work, not depending on the cheap machine for everything. For $30-40, its a rocked chain sharpener.
I used to use a round grind Silvey at State Parks. Nice machine, for $1000.
Decrease your file size, and increase your depth gauge/ raker-offset as the tooth is used up.
If you can't hand-file, it won't be great. If you can, you will have an eye for it, and will be able to make it work, not depending on the cheap machine for everything. For $30-40, its a rocked chain sharpener.
I used to use a round grind Silvey at State Parks. Nice machine, for $1000.
This is when new!
Decrease your file size, and increase your depth gauge/ raker-offset as the tooth is used up.
Magnus
TreeHouser
I can see its handy for harvesters with lots of poser to pull chain. But for saws a good hand filed chain is the best.
I hand file harvester chains too.
I hand file harvester chains too.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
@Nutball Ease into a chain with bad sharpening...well to start with, file evenly, and let someone else fix their bad cutters lol...ease in on the longer cutters, doing multiple passes, as needed.
In my past, we used softer, cheaper Oregon chains for cutting trees prone to embedded nails at Parks. I personally run Stihl chain, 98% of the time, residentially.
I hit the chain for three quick taps (that's a metric measurement, btw). If I need more, I either do another revolution, of hang the wheel just off the tooth, giving it a breeze, letting it cool. Whether that breeze does any appreciable cooling or not, I don't know, however its a bit easier for me to wait a bit longer (known to cool the tooth) if I'm under the illusion it is helping.
Hand filing, after the battered teeth are close to even, and work-hardening ground off, is the finish-work to sharp cutting.
In my past, we used softer, cheaper Oregon chains for cutting trees prone to embedded nails at Parks. I personally run Stihl chain, 98% of the time, residentially.
I hit the chain for three quick taps (that's a metric measurement, btw). If I need more, I either do another revolution, of hang the wheel just off the tooth, giving it a breeze, letting it cool. Whether that breeze does any appreciable cooling or not, I don't know, however its a bit easier for me to wait a bit longer (known to cool the tooth) if I'm under the illusion it is helping.
Hand filing, after the battered teeth are close to even, and work-hardening ground off, is the finish-work to sharp cutting.
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
You can definitely get a very sharp chain hand filing ... but ... if you do not “get the gullet” (as Buckin sez) you’re chain Will NOT cut as quickly ... an illustration ... ... with my grinder I can get it all in one pass ... if you are hand filing you must do another operation ... ie 1) sharpen chain , 2) get gullet .... I’ve gotten 25% + by finding the optimum gullet ... what happens is that if you don’t get the gullet out or it’s not the right geometry the chips can’t get out and the cutting slows down ... trial and error by hand ... dead nuts every time with grinder
Attachments
Burnham
Woods walker
This has all been interesting, and I've certainly learned some things, even with 40 years of hand sharpening both chisel and round filed chain under my belt.
But at the end of the day, I think the primary idea to keep at the front of our minds as day in and out chainsaw users is...
Never keep cutting with a chain that is losing it's edge. It's stupid, and lazy, and self defeating. Either swap out to a second or third chain that is "sharp", or take the time to "sharpen" by hand filing the dulling one.
Because ime it really doesn't matter much if we are cutting with a chain that is in the top 1 percent of the sharp category, or one in the top 10 percent.
What really matters is that we are not cutting with a chain that is down there in the under 75 percent sharp group...or even lower. If the best you can do with hand filing is 90 percent of the best the most talented can produce...you still will be far ahead of the average saw user if you keep chain close to that sharp in play, all day long.
That's what I learned a long many years ago, and what I'd advise as the pertinent point for sawyers to focus on.
But at the end of the day, I think the primary idea to keep at the front of our minds as day in and out chainsaw users is...
Never keep cutting with a chain that is losing it's edge. It's stupid, and lazy, and self defeating. Either swap out to a second or third chain that is "sharp", or take the time to "sharpen" by hand filing the dulling one.
Because ime it really doesn't matter much if we are cutting with a chain that is in the top 1 percent of the sharp category, or one in the top 10 percent.
What really matters is that we are not cutting with a chain that is down there in the under 75 percent sharp group...or even lower. If the best you can do with hand filing is 90 percent of the best the most talented can produce...you still will be far ahead of the average saw user if you keep chain close to that sharp in play, all day long.
That's what I learned a long many years ago, and what I'd advise as the pertinent point for sawyers to focus on.
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Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
Having an extra saw or 3 available, ready to cut with a freshly-sharpened chain, might not be a bad idear either. Trying to cut with a chain that has lost its edge puts a lot of undue pressure on the various components of the chainsaw ... Sometimes ya can cut a few tanks worth or other times get only 1/2 tank before the cutting performance diminishes ... I’m fond of having a few saws redy to rip and when the chain starts dulling put er down and grab another saw - seems like I get more done this way
