Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Chris gave the best advice. I would never put something restrictive like that on my business.
Service Area Map
- Thread starter NickfromWI
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woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Seems like Nick is trying to explain but some folks aren't picturing the situation. In other places the contrary advice would be well taken, but the Los Angeles area has the worst traffic congestion on the entire North American continent. That is a powerful force to contend with when you are a busy person that needs to get around relatively smoothly and on time. If you can set your own parameters to work around the difficulties as much as is possible, it would probably save a lot of strain. In some peak driving times, probably when Nick would be traveling to and from jobs, you have to add like three quarters of an hour delay to every hour that your vehicle is reasonably moving along. Get to a job and your brain might be already fried, then you still have to make it home in some condition to walk in your door. 
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Beat the traffic -
FJR
Treehouser
That would work nicely Ed, especially since you are allowed to cut the lanes in Cali.
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
If I lived in somewhere where traffic was such a major impediment to my business, I would change my modus operandi. Maybe have a 2 man cutting crew on bikes, and an early morning / dusk clearup crew with the truck and chipper working behind.
Not saying what Nick should do, but I would look to doing something different.
Not saying what Nick should do, but I would look to doing something different.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I'm sure it's been thought on a lot. I'm sure they would have noise by-laws there.
Cobleskill
Treehouser
I think dusk would work. Around here you have till at least 10 before they can squawk. Contractors around here generally start at 7, 7:30. Being CA though I guess could be different. They are on most everything else.
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
I'd skip a chipper and just use a grapple truck. Much quicker and quieter.
Peter
Treehouser
I would be disinclined to put the map up, for all the reasons above, and because many people wont look at it and just ring you anyway.
Other suggestions:
Use a call answering service to screen unwanted enquiries.
Schedule bids for minimum 7 days in advance, at a time that suits you and when traffic is quiet, then ring the day before to see if they still want a price. If someone is doing it dirt cheap chances are they will already have accepted a price.
Network with other companies and have a reciprocal arrangement where you pass on enquiries to them and vice versa.
Recruit some estimators local to the areas you don't want to go to, and tell them to go high on longer distance work.
edit:
I used to work in a small radius in an urban area, now I cover a biggish area in a rural area, so I understand both sides of the coin.
Other suggestions:
Use a call answering service to screen unwanted enquiries.
Schedule bids for minimum 7 days in advance, at a time that suits you and when traffic is quiet, then ring the day before to see if they still want a price. If someone is doing it dirt cheap chances are they will already have accepted a price.
Network with other companies and have a reciprocal arrangement where you pass on enquiries to them and vice versa.
Recruit some estimators local to the areas you don't want to go to, and tell them to go high on longer distance work.
edit:
I used to work in a small radius in an urban area, now I cover a biggish area in a rural area, so I understand both sides of the coin.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
Seems like Nick is trying to explain but some folks aren't picturing the situation. In other places the contrary advice would be well taken, but the Los Angeles area has the worst traffic congestion on the entire North American continent. That is a powerful force to contend with when you are a busy person that needs to get around relatively smoothly and on time. If you can set your own parameters to work around the difficulties as much as is possible, it would probably save a lot of strain. In some peak driving times, probably when Nick would be traveling to and from jobs, you have to add like three quarters of an hour delay to every hour that your vehicle is reasonably moving along. Get to a job and your brain might be already fried, then you still have to make it home in some condition to walk in your door.
Jay, Nick's dilemma makes sense. I follow the idea that travel is a whole different game where he is. But the catch is, Im not suggesting he travel that distance. Im suggesting not to do away with the option. Phone calls don't burn fuel. They can be ignored, or referred onto someone else. I do get the fact that undesirable phone calls suck. I hate doing useless calls, especially after a busy day. BUT, this is one of the downsides to owning a business. Its hard to avoid. My point wasn't to chase the work outside his turf, but rather not to chase it away. You just do know what the future holds. Look at the rough hand Japan was dealt. I know that's put a few strains on you since then, which you seem to handle with the best of attitudes by the way.
Seems like Nick is trying to explain but some folks aren't picturing the situation. In other places the contrary advice would be well taken, but the Los Angeles area has the worst traffic congestion on the entire North American continent. That is a powerful force to contend with when you are a busy person that needs to get around relatively smoothly and on time. If you can set your own parameters to work around the difficulties as much as is possible, it would probably save a lot of strain. In some peak driving times, probably when Nick would be traveling to and from jobs, you have to add like three quarters of an hour delay to every hour that your vehicle is reasonably moving along. Get to a job and your brain might be already fried, then you still have to make it home in some condition to walk in your door.
Yep, what Jay said.
Nicks area is crazy, he found out what works for him, he knows what makes him the $$ and the map is a good idea
Ive got my limitations as well, like Sacramento, hate going there...its not a work friendly area, long drive time just for bid...you have to go through truck scale's to get there and they can have you pull aside and inspect your truck which could take up to an hour..ask me how I know..lol...
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
I wont work in the city of Scranton, 10 miles away. I can be there in minutes with pretty much zero traffic, but its off my radar for entirely different reasons. The money is garbage, the people can be aggravating, parking and yard access are a living hell, and there are MANY wires running through every yard, street, and driveway. Pound for pound, hour for hour, it isn't worth me bidding work there versus the suburbs surrounding it. Should I decide I want to spend my life topping silver maples for bottom dollar, I'll be there.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
If you have a good place to dump, I agree completely.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Thanks, Chris.
Hauling brush, which is all we do here, has it's benefits and downsides, I don't think it is quite so simple as to say that the methods of working are interchangeable if you can dump material that isn't chipped. A grapple truck is a great way for sure, but there is also the need for space requirements at the job site when hauling brush, and if you will need to make repeated dumping runs, how far is the dump location from where you are working, again with the traffic situation in mind. Often a whole day is required after the cutting is done to deal with the brush, it works out ok because we aren't so busy here. Probably Nick doesn't have that luxury. Other variables come to mind, like the number of people that are there on the crew to also deal with the brush. Brush loading skills are essential, but I'm not sure that a grapple can load brush as compactly as chokered bundles, and if you are also hauling a lot of larger limbs and logs, space gets taken up quickly. Having read and seen the way that you guys work for a long time, I have to think that chipping brush is definitely the way to go whenever possible, unless the ideal situation is there to haul it, or no alternative. More rural or semi rural locations makes for easier hauling brush, and for roads where the cops won't spot your overload...
Hauling brush, which is all we do here, has it's benefits and downsides, I don't think it is quite so simple as to say that the methods of working are interchangeable if you can dump material that isn't chipped. A grapple truck is a great way for sure, but there is also the need for space requirements at the job site when hauling brush, and if you will need to make repeated dumping runs, how far is the dump location from where you are working, again with the traffic situation in mind. Often a whole day is required after the cutting is done to deal with the brush, it works out ok because we aren't so busy here. Probably Nick doesn't have that luxury. Other variables come to mind, like the number of people that are there on the crew to also deal with the brush. Brush loading skills are essential, but I'm not sure that a grapple can load brush as compactly as chokered bundles, and if you are also hauling a lot of larger limbs and logs, space gets taken up quickly. Having read and seen the way that you guys work for a long time, I have to think that chipping brush is definitely the way to go whenever possible, unless the ideal situation is there to haul it, or no alternative. More rural or semi rural locations makes for easier hauling brush, and for roads where the cops won't spot your overload...
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
I agree that grapple truck vs. chipper definitely depends on your location and workforce. In Hong Kong the grapple truck makes far more sense. When I'm working in New Mexico the chipper makes far more sense.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I would think it would be just the opposite!
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Ha. A grapple will pack brushwood down tighter than you ever can manually, and will clear a load far quicker and easier than it can be chipped. Take it from someone who's operated and owned grapple trucks and chipping outfits for years.
It only takes 1 operator / driver to load the brush as opposed to several operatives when chipping. There are no overloading issues either that I can think of.
It only takes 1 operator / driver to load the brush as opposed to several operatives when chipping. There are no overloading issues either that I can think of.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Ed, you are right about having a powerful implement to pack down the brush making a big difference. So much space is simply taken up by air when you load brush. The chokering helps with that, but I would defer to your expertise if you think a grapple is better when it comes to how much you can get in. The grapple is fast. We generally put the chokered bundles in the truck and pack down with the crane boom (unic) that is attached to the truck, once we get higher than the boom's lowered position. It also enables sweeping in overhang from over the sides. Makes a hell of a difference being able to push down hard on the brush when loading.
Mick!
TreeHouser
I wouldn't have agreed on that until a few years ago we took a decent oak down in a tight situation.
The sawmill which was taking the trunk told me not to bother chipping, Just lay the branches out on the lawn.
He grappled them up put them on his lorry, then plonked the trunk on top. Very nice.
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Grapple trucks rock!
sotc
Dormant hero!!
I want one
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I've always wanted to try operating one. The guy that picks up our logs, i think he could take a toothpick out of your mouth.
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
I could knock a mosquito's eye out with my old softwood crane. With brushwood, its the ability of the european style bypass grapples to crush the brush up into dense bundles that makes it so good.
