Ropetek Hitch Hiker

[woodworkingboy]

No doubt. It's been a number of years since, but flying into Los Angeles not so long after 9/11 off an international flight, and not having visited the states of recent as the passport shows, I did get what seemed a pretty intense look over. Security everywhere and who knows what you can't see, even the sniffing Beagles were giving hard looks. That is out of Japan which cant be very high on the list of where they think terrorists are likely to be coming from. Flights out of Cairo and such, i can only imagine.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Air travel today is a nightmare.

 

[JoshINtrees]

I have these things now and again I refer to as Joshua's Points to Ponder:

Why is it that ships must carry enough life jackets for everyone on board but airplanes don't have to carry parachutes for everyone on board?

I mean most people can swim but I've never met anyone that can fly.

 

[DMc]

OK so this is an idea Dave (DMC) came up with for attaching the hitch to the unit thus getting rid of the upper binder and the inherent slop that it produces... This "dog bone " works really well...

Paul, that looks sweet! As for giving me credit for the thought, I feel it would be more accurate to call it a collaboration.

Having the hitch attached directly to the Hitch Hiker makes for one tidy SRT package. Being able to accomplish this in a fashion that is acceptable to the guardians of the safety gates while still keeping the HH mid-line attachable is the challenge. When Paul gets all of these hurdles hurdled, this should be a very successful tool.

Dave

 

[sotc]

How is the heat build up on the dogbone? Less mass and same friction seems it would heat up quicker

 

[PCTREE]

Willie, I have only 1 very roughly made dog bone so haven't done much testing yet however the top point doesn't get much heat buildup as it is released when in descent mode. The real heat issue is on the lower portion of the belly of the HH which can get very hot to the touch. After long descents it is too hot to hold your hand on . In testing we ran a 350lbs block of wood 60' as fast as we could and were able to record 190f, rope melts approx 450f. We ran 600' rope through it with me hanging on it at a rate of 100' minute (Wraptor speed) and it got to 140f.
When we nail down the final design I will conduct a full and documented array of tests.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I had a little bit off of daddy duty yesterday to give my employee some climbing training. After, I gave the HH a quick try with a swabisch on icetail on poison hyvee. I don't know that this is the best set up. Maybe I need a thinner hitch cord on the 11.7mm rope. I got a lot of fuzz building up on the carabiners even though the rope is over a year old. My guess is that I have to try it with another hitch cord and perhaps hitch. My take on the fuzz build-up on a broken in rope is that I was getting too much friction down low. I had been using the swabisch (for a change of pace) on DdRT during the training, but had to add an additional top wrap on the hitch in order for it to grab.

My hope is to break away from Dahlia later today to do some climbing training with Erik, my manager employee, at which time I'll try a different hitch and cord with the HH.

I really like the idea of the HH. More compact than the RW, and not sticking out at tooth level.

It tended fine by hand with a Pantin. I didn't have a bungee with me that second, nor did I use my flipline over the shoulder.

I think that an unavoidable downside is that a climber can't use a 3:1 system to come back in from a limbwalk, I guess the same with a Uni. The RW has this advantage.

Will report back as time away from Dahlia allows. She's settling in more, and Amy's getting more rest, so I'm hopeful to do it today.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

The dogbone idea is has the good advantages of lighter than a steel biner (I imagine), and more compact.

I was going to use a distel with the HH yesterday, but tried the swabisch just by chance. I was hoping to avoid the congestion caused by, and need for, a pulley, and the distel likely works better for self tending.

I have normally been climbing on a distel on poison hyvee with HRC with the RW, IIRC (looks like the picture of it), as the spliced eye length that I bought was too short for me to get a VT.

 

[PCTREE]

Interesting observation on the Fuzz. I have noticed this also but never gave it too much thought. Yes the bottom biner does the majority of the breaking, so do we feel this is to harsh on the rope??

Input Dave?? I would imagine the Uni has to produce some "fuzz" also huh??

EDIT thinking about this, you get that same "FUZZ" build up on a figure 8 after using it. Don't think this is too problematic. SST when I get everything going Ill send you a dog bone, really makes a difference. Ive never tried Icetail been using 8mm beeline.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

IDK about the figure 8, as I don't find myself using one.

Seperately from the descending fuzz, I imagine the production HH will have a bit smoother edges, like a gibbs ascender IIRC, no? Seems like the same tending motion with both devices, at least with a lanyard adjuster Gibbs, which works fine. I know the one you sent me is a prototype.

How would you feel if I smoothed the edges a hair, if its feasible with a file with this type of metal?

 

[DMc]

...I think that an unavoidable downside is that a climber can't use a 3:1 system to come back in from a limbwalk, I guess the same with a Uni. The RW has this advantage...

Sean, if the system is pre-thought and added as in an alpine butterfly and Revolver carabiner, the Hitch Hiker will indeed work as a 3:1. With the hitch attached as Paul has done with the dog bone,( I have mine with an AN bolt ) the whole assembly is almost exactly the same length as a Hitch Climber setup and should function just the same, but in SRT mode.

FYI - the Unicender also works in a 3:1 mode.

Dave

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Okay, Dave, Thanks.

Do you have some type of roller at the bottom of the Uni? I have only seen pics of the Uni, never having examined it for super detail.

With the HH, from memory (its in the barn, and I'm in the house with Dahlia), it seems like it would be wrapping around/ bending the rope over the sharp-ish bottom edge of the HH, no? I'll have to see it in action, hopefully later today.

 

[DMc]

...Input Dave?? I would imagine the Uni has to produce some "fuzz" also huh??...

Yes, with SRT I see more fuzz on metal parts in the systems I have used including the RW and Uni combo. I guess at some point a strength loss test should be done to determine the amount of wear but on the ropes I have been using I don't see anything that makes me concerned.

I also will see lots of fuzz on the Unicender even when used in a DdRT configuration. I believe the amount of visible fuzz on metal parts is not so much from increased wear but more of an electrostatic adhesion.

Dave

 

[DMc]

...it seems like it would be wrapping around/ bending the rope over the sharp-ish bottom edge of the HH, no? I'll have to see it in action, hopefully later today.

Yeah, you will see when using it that it tails in the opposite direction.

Dave

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Thanks.

Makes sense about the electrostatic adhesion.

Do you mean that it tails away from the HH, bending only around the bottom biner's smooth edge? That would make sense, and be much smoother. I was really in a rush to get back inside, as I'd been out training harvey for a while and Amy has been really tired. She would much rather that I be fully on daddy duty, but is being flexible. I was climbing a free hanging rope with the Pantin, so wasn't really tailing it as on a limb walk or climbing within the canopy.

I have some hangers in an elm at my house to get from the January snow/ice storm, hopefully today, so it will be a bit more of a real work scenario.

 

[PCTREE]

Yup when you pull up on the rope to tend slack it bends around the biner not the HH frame. I ground off all the burs on the unit I sent you so there should be nothing sharp enough to hurt a rope but by all means have at it with a file and smooth it off further. The rope only "sees" the belly of the HH and the 2 biners.....

 

[rangerdanger]

Messed around with HH on a small side job today, just doing some pruning on small osage oranges. First impressions are good, I like it so far. The thing I liked the most so far is how the HH assembly creates a hand hold of sorts to hold onto when ascending up, be it via foot lock or pantin. Felt really natural to put my hand there and slid it all up the rope as I ascended. Ascents were very smooth and controlled, as were the descents.

One thing I noticed is it seems to take more friction away from my hitch than my RW does, so my hitch had to be adjusted accordingly. Also, and I saw it was mentioned earlier by Paul, the bottom of the HH does heat up quite a bit, even under just normal use.

Just thought I'd give my first impressions so far. I'll be using it more in the coming weeks and will make a detailed review soon and post any comments I have as I go along on here.

 

[PCTREE]

Thats interesting that you say it relieves the hitch more than the RW. Dave (DMC) wants even less load on the hitch. Not sure that is attainable but you think the load on the hitch is OK huh??? I was alarmed at how hot it got initially but it doesn't seem to get any hotter than you have probably noticed....

 

[Burnham]

This is so frickin' cool...

 

[rangerdanger]

Yeah man, I wouldn't want it to relieve anymore. I did a comparison and used the exact same hitch for the HH and RW. It definitely released a lot easier on the HH, still grabbed reliably, but it took a lot less pressure to get it to release.

 

[PCTREE]

Ranger, out of interest, if you are limb walking with the RW do you still have full resistance from the unit i.e. do you have to pull out slack?? By design with the HH if the hitch isn't exerting resistance then neither will the unit.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Yup when you pull up on the rope to tend slack it bends around the biner not the HH frame. I ground off all the burs on the unit I sent you so there should be nothing sharp enough to hurt a rope but by all means have at it with a file and smooth it off further. The rope only "sees" the belly of the HH and the 2 biners.....

As the rope runs on the 'biner, rather than around the end of the frame, as with a Gibbs, I'm not worried about it. NO burrs present, just the shape of the frame concerning me for slack tending while climbing IN the canopy, with the mistaken impression of where the rope slides during tending.

I didn't get any time to play with it further today.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Couple of thoughts from a storm damage prune yesterday at my house in an elm.

The dogbone is essentially acting in the same way as a 'biner turned on its side, using the spine of the carabiner for a friction surface similar to a carabiner brake. I don't know that its possible to pass OSHA this way, but could be a non-manufacturer endorsed way to use it, and be MidLine Attachable.

With that in mind, it would be useful/ necessary to keep it sideways with something akin to a corner trap, probably rubber hose. The prototype that you sent me is a tight squeeze as is to install the biners.

I used a hand-tied Ice cord with VT hitch, as I don't splice, yet. This allows the cinching factor on the 'biner. With this cinching and loose weave, I'll reiterate that a keylock 'biner would be well worth the extra dollars, IMO. Tied cord, with the ability to loosen the knot may have a 'pro' in that it can be loosened to go over a rubber hose 'corner trap' if it were to be used on the upper 'biner crosswise on the spine.

I had a bit of trouble at times keeping the whole shebang oriented properly, so would probably like to use some sort of corner trap. A trade-off of a looser slot for installing the biner would be more likelihood of becoming out of alignment.

I like the action pretty well. I might just have to dial in the hitch cord length and/ or use a different cord and length. I didn't get a solid bite from the ice/ Vt/ HH at times, meaning that I slid a bit to a stop, which I usually don't do. My HRC spliced cord is to short for a vt, and the distel on poison hyvee didn't get enough friction to grab, or tend with an extra wrap.

I don't know how to incorporate varying amounts of 'bite' on the HH. The RW has the adjustable width which is nice. The HH is meant to work automatically. Sometimes the trade off in one size fits all/ auto adjust is that one cannot adjust something when desired.

I am going to order some different cords from Wesspur, which usually has next day delivery if ordered in the AM, but we have a show the baby off breakfast this morning, so I don't know if I'll get it ordered now or not.

 

[DMc]

...One thing I noticed is it seems to take more friction away from my hitch than my RW does, so my hitch had to be adjusted accordingly. Also, and I saw it was mentioned earlier by Paul, the bottom of the HH does heat up quite a bit, even under just normal use... I'll be using it more in the coming weeks and will make a detailed review soon and post any comments I have as I go along on here.

Ranger, try to get some pictures of how you have it set up, if you can. I found that the VT type hitches can take large loads and still break loose and advance well but the tighter and somewhat safer hitches, like the Distel and Michoacan, if tied for optimum descent became too tight to advance as smoothly as I would like.

Dave

 

[PCTREE]

SST you probably cannot see but in that first video I posted of this in use I had the biner sideways as you have started to use. The problem is keeping it aligned and also I feared that the safety folks would freak about side loading it which IMO you aren't. Anyways I moved on and I think when you get a dog bone you will be impressed by its function.... Be careful with the VT, if it doesn't grab you will fall..... Ill be so glad when I get it all figured out and have a spring on top....