Patron Saint of Bore-Cutters

[stig]

I'll use an open face if I'm trying to work against side lean, and want the hinge intact for as long as possible.
Mostly I'll add a vertical cut so it'll hold even better.

But that is a special application, not something I'd do on every tree.
In fact, when doing thinning work, we most often want the hinge to break as soon as the tree is commited , in order to give it a better chance of rolling when we try to squeeze it into the tight lay that is par for that kind of work.

 

[SeanKroll]

If you're bad at facing a tree, a wide open face will hide less, and be easier to clean out enough to avoid some rookie dutchmans.

Personally, no thanks.


Humboldt's are also way easier to cut high on a butt, like above a crotch, sweep, cavity, etc, and they fall out of the cut on their own, due to gravity.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Wide open is cool, but 2 feet tall? Nyet!

 

[stig]

Sean, Humboldts are no go here, due to the low stumps we are required to set.
I use them when climbing, of course.

 

[stig]

I just looked at the Mark Chisholm video again.
My conclusion is that while he is the cat's ass, when it comes to arbo work, he is not much of a faller.

Funny, because we had a thread this winter when Jed said that loggers were soooooooooooooooo superior to arbos when it comes to falling, and someone said that if a top notch arborist like Mark took to logging, he'd fit right in.

Not!

I'm sure with his general aptitude for tree work, and my aptitude for teaching ( Blush!) I could turn him into a good logger in a month, though.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yep! About a month!

That's all it takes!

 

[stig]

Are you being sarcastic.
If so, why?

If somebody already knows how to run and sharpen saws and has a rudimentary grasp of falling and bucking ( Sorry Mark, but that is how I see it)
Sharpening that up and learning how to grade logs should only take about a month.

 

[biggun]

I saw this the other day...

Some interesting points and some of it relevant to bore cutting.

What do you reckon Stig? Is there some method in the Swedish madness?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LgLLDg1nunM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[stig]

Hell, I don't know.
If you want a fast cutting chain, why use a semi chisel.
Those are mainly run by arborists and other amateurs here.

Also, I tend to look down on people who can only sharpen using some kind of device.
If one does chainsaw work for a living, one should learn to sharpen with just a file, no crutches IMO.

I liked the idea of filing with the saw upside down, never seen that before.

 

[biggun]

Full chisel all the way, I tend to file free hand, unless it is hammered, then I will use a guide to try and reset everything.

It was more the points he made about hollowing out the fuller and filing the back of the tooth, inline with the witness mark. It seemed to make sense to me as it reduced the profile on the tip and the bore he made at the end definitely looked a lot quicker and smoother.

 

[stig]

Personally, I think that if it made much of a difference, the chain saw manufacturers would make chains that way.

Might matter some, I don't know.

 

[pete mctree]

That is a lot of time to spend on a new chain. I can see the benefit of it, especially the grinding off of the back of the tooth, but I'm not sure I could be arsed to be honest.

You should try make a couple whilst you have time Stig. It would be interesting

 

[stig]

Now, that is an idea.
Probably never get around to it, though.
Spring is here and I have over 100 tomatoes, peppers, chilies, eggplants ( or aubergine as we say over here) melons and a few hundred basil genovese, that needs transplanting from the house ( I have 50 tomato plants under artificial light in the living room ) to the poly tunnel.

That is more important right now than gaining a few seconds on a chainsaw cut.

 

[kevin bingham]

I was thinking, in logging you probably never have to flush the stump low for the stump grinder. Felling the tree is fine with an undersized bar but damn there is nothing worse than trying to get a fast, clean flush cut with one.

 

[stig]

I finally figured out how to edit and upload videos from the camera Gary send me.
Life is not easy for computer ignoramuses

This is just a video of Richard felling a beech tree. He had already started on the face cut when I showed up.
I had no chance to practice with the camera, because the day after I got it, logging season ended, somewhat untimely.
We'd been asked to cut 1000 cubic meters of beech, then all of a sudden after only 400 CM, it was called off.
So I drove all the way up to the north end of the island and filmed the boys on the very last day.

We have some summer logging lined up and I'll make some videos of that, try to find a bad leaner and show how we deal with that.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O-4FF_ZC5UI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[forestkeepers]

I just looked at the Mark Chisholm video again.
My conclusion is that while he is the cat's ass, when it comes to arbo work, he is not much of a faller.

Funny, because we had a thread this winter when Jed said that loggers were soooooooooooooooo superior to arbos when it comes to falling, and someone said that if a top notch arborist like Mark took to logging, he'd fit right in.

Not!

I'm sure with his general aptitude for tree work, and my aptitude for teaching ( Blush!) I could turn him into a good logger in a month, though.

I think you've hit upon something key here. While Mark Chisholm may be 2nd to none up in the tree, that is where his specialty lies. Same with our crew -- often times the climber is rolling up his rope and putting away gear while another crew member takes the honors of actually felling the tree. So our climbers may only fell the tree 50% of the time. Plus, given our work schedule and drive time to jobs (30-50 minutes) it's not unusual to only actually fell 1-2 trees per day. Some days there no trees to fell at all -- pruning days or safety trims. So we're not as practiced as a professional faller, but then again we generally have far more obstructions and property concerns to deal with than a logger.

 

[cory]

Lordy, this thread got beefy in the last 24 hours!!

I like the wide open bird's mouth face (but not with that 2' tall top cut!) when you want the tree to still be attached to the stump after it has fallen, such as when cutting a high stump and dropping the tree directly on top of a bush to be saved, the butt stays attached to stump and the bush is not squashed. Of course you also need the right tree species and wood characteristics for that to work. Did it yesterday with a river birch, worked a charm.

Stig, where is the Mark Chisholm vid you mentioned in #30? Maybe I haven't watched it. But I still say it would take all of 1.5 minutes to turn him into a superior logger. He is plainly a world class treeman/tree cutter and he's young and strong as an ox. Strictly an rhetorical point as to whether or not he'd make a good logger but color me as believing he would be world class at it with little to no training beyond what he already possesses.

 

[stig]

There are plenty of obstructions in the woods, unless you are clear cutting.
In thinning operations, you have to avoid damaging other trees and new growth, avoid rocks and stumps in order not to damage the log you are felling.
It is a common misconception that we can just toss the trees every which way.

 

[stig]

Post #16 Cory.

Yep, it is fun when threads suddenly take off.

1.5 minutes isn't going to do it, simply because there is much more to it than felling trees.
It usually takes our apprentices most of a season just to get comfortable with log grading.

They often come over and ask for advice in where to buck the expensive hardwood logs.

As for softwood logging, it takes a while to get really fluid in limbing.

I do get your point, though.

 

[cory]

Rich, hella vid! Wow there was beef in there I've never seen before.

Stig, do you use chisel teeth (triangular files)?

Doing a big filing of a new unused chain is different, to me. Ive never done it because although a new chain cuts slower, at least they are predictably smooth cutting.

Filing off the rear of the tooth is completely radical and interesting to me. One disadvantage not mentioned would be much lower tooth life as the teeth would break off before filing all the way back to the witness mark.

The welder's chalk was news to me, anyone else ever try that? Along those lines, something he didn't mention which I think is critical to file life and filing effectiveness is cleaning the file of metal cuttings between each stroke. Grinding the grindings is inefficient and wearing.

Since when are rakers not uniform when new, that's news to me and a bit hard to believe.

 

[stig]

Here is another felling video.
Not much different from the first. This is Mathias, our former apprentice felling a codominant tree.
Those are nasty because if they don't fall exactly right, so both "legs" as we call them, hit the ground simultaneously, the log splits.
Usually they have really nice veneer grade logs with no knots, so that makes it even worse if you split them.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UxqK-SdGKpg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[stig]

We use round filed chisel , Cory.
Square ground is mostly for softwood.

I always start out filing the rakers on a new chain, before I file the chain.
Rarely are they exactly the same length.
I never use a chain out of the box, always file it first.
We always use raker guides for filing.
We switch saws a lot between us.
Nothing worse that ending up in a tree with a saw with the rakers filed down too low.
So by using guides, we make sure nobody gets a scary surprice.

 

[stig]

While I'm wasting y'all's time with videos, here is one where I just talk a bit.
Fiona wanted to hear my voice.
This is the best stand we've had all season.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ict4JK4SGn8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[cory]

Kevin, I for one prefer a bar that doesn't reach all the way through when flushing large stumps, unless the stump is in a completely clean environment, because the pulling teeth on the far side of the stump will pull debris into the kerf and dull the saw at least a little bit. If the tip of bar is buried inside the stump then you are always cutting clean wood. Same idea as if the stump you are flushing is covered on all sides with dirt, mud or grit, you would nose in at a spot you cleaned first and then work your way around with the tip buried and you'd cut the whole stump without getting any dullness.

 

[cory]

We use round filed chisel , Cory.
Square ground is mostly for softwood.

That's what I presumed which is why I was surprised you had a question with the guy in the vid using semi chisel.