Patron Saint of Bore-Cutters

[forestkeepers]

stig, I'm calling you out. Well, not for a duel, but to explain your tagline, "Patron saint of bore-cutters".

Husqvarna's qualified trainer (out of Ohio, apparently) implies that bore cutting is S.O.P. (standard operating procedure). Yet for felling, we rarely do it unless there is a fence, wall, or some obstruction behind the tree that would prevent a clear backcut. I can see the wisdom of what the feller in Husqvarna's instructional video is passing on (to avoid a barber chair scenario, two points of holding wood). Care to fill me in on your "patron saint" text? Do you always (or nearly) bore cut when felling?
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Teb2bQsqx44
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Teb2bQsqx44?rel=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[ruel]

You figure out that camera yet Stig? I've been looking forward to some saintly bore cutting advice myself.

 

[Joezilla11]

That’s the way I was taught, to set your hinge first

 

[SkwerI]

I'm certain there was a thread on the forum somewhere which originally led to Stig adopting that tag line, but I have no idea when or where. Someone here (maybe Burnham) might remember and dig it up.

 

[stig]

I've made 2 videos, but am a bit stumped on how to edit and upload.
Will get some help from one of my old apprentices shortly.

Forestkeepers ( How about a shorter moniker) I've been a professional treefaller for 40 years.
Started cutting pulp, moved into hardwoods and larger conifers and eventually added an arborist side line.
I estimate that I have felled about 250 000 trees, so I'm not exactly what you'd call a greenhorn.
That is not counting all the small stuff we fall, doing pre commercial thinning, if I counted that, I'd probably be over a million.

I've had COUNTLESS discussions with the West coast crowd here, who all think that if your bar isn't long enough to reach through the tree 1 and a half time, you're simply not a man.
In Europe we do it the other way 'round. Use as light a saw and as short a bar as possible.
That involves a lot of bore cutting, of course.
I don't borecut if I can reach through from one side, there is no front lean and no heavy winds, but 95% of the trees we fall are borecut.

There is a hell of a difference between falling to scale in the woods and cutting trees in yards, it is two very different scenarios.

I just watched the video, and what he is doing is simply a waste of time IMO.
Why borecut a tree that is standing straight up on a calm day, when your bar can reach through it.?
Plain silliness.

What a pity Burnham is off travelling, we can usually get a good banter going about this.

 

[kevin bingham]

I'm at a loss as to why you would want too short a bar At it. I can understand wanting the shortest length possible to make it to the other side of the tree.

 

[stig]

Have you done much bucking and limbing in hardwoods.
Like when you get paid by how many cubic meters you put on the ground.

When you are futzing around in all the branches, bucking the top up, with binds all over, a short bar is so much easier to handle.

Felling the tree is a small part of the work, it is the limbing and bucking speed that matters.

Say you are felling mature beech, which is what we do the most, you are cutting a 4 foot diameter tree.
If you used a 4 foot bar, you'd be trying to make your way through the crown of it , doing lots and lots of smaller cuts, with that 4 foot bar.
Impractical, in my opinion.
Better to spend a bit more time felling it and have a shorter bar for the rest of the work.

 

[kevin bingham]

that makes sense. having two saws would be too much to lug around as well I suppose.

 

[stig]

We do that on the big trees, but it really is a bother.

 

[cory]

There's a saying- The better the logger, the smaller the saw.

Makes sense cuz it takes time to get good and when you are good you are older and not as strong so less eager to carry any extra weight around in your saw. And your skills allow you to do more with less. In these parts I fairly often see tree services with huge saws- big engine/long bar. They typically seem not knowledgable.

 

[treebilly]

Yeah. I short bar a lot as well and I can see the reason for the bore cut if felling to scale but that video I couldn?t watch. That tree had enough ?severe lean? that I might have had to stack wedges to tip it backwards. I get it that the videos are to teach but a bore cut is only really necessary with a few trees here and there. Not an every tree thing. Sting is in a whole different class of felling than what I?m referring to though. And if that guys saw couldn?t get through that tree quick enough to avoid barber chair, he should maybe try using a real saw. Not those Home Depot huskys

 

[Altissimus]

I couldn't watch much of video. We bore all hardwood sawlogs when logging here , never Softwoods. Boring out is to protect the log value especially Veneer grade.

 

[biggun]

Also, we get taught in Europe as a standard how to complete a two and a half bar length fell. Through boring the face, i.e. gutting the hinge and then once the middle has gone the sides can be cut without worrying about leaving a large section intact or to avoid fibre pull in the centre of the log.

Also we don't have that many more huge trees here so if you do come across a fatty, you don't have to shell out mega bucks for a huge bar when a smaller one will suffice.

I.e. It is a perfectly safe and taught method to knock over a 5 foot diameter tree with only a 2 foot bar. That is my take on it from a UK perspective. Not every one has a 5 footer to hand. Providing they got the skills it will go.

 

[cory]

100%

 

[forestkeepers]

I don't borecut if I can reach through from one side, there is no front lean and no heavy winds, but 95% of the trees we fall are borecut.

There is a hell of a difference between falling to scale in the woods and cutting trees in yards, it is two very different scenarios.

I just watched the video, and what he is doing is simply a waste of time IMO.
Why borecut a tree that is standing straight up on a calm day, when your bar can reach through it.?
Plain silliness.

Aha. Stig, thanks for the reply back and for shedding the needed light on the subject and laying it at rest for me. I see that we are involved in 2 completely different scenarios. Logging in fields and forests is completely different than our typical residential constraints (usually hardwood; pine is rare for us). Usually when we arrive on a job site, we assess which saws are needed (climbing saw, limbing saw, felling saw, and/or BIG felling saw) and then gas & oil them so they are out & ready. Then we climb & lower or drop limbs to get it to a manageable felling profile. Then we prepare to fell the tree, working within the constraints of the local yard's environment. It's a rare day that we can really account for lean and aim it or let it fall in the direction it would want to naturally go. Instead, we have to persuade it to go in the direction we need it to go, avoiding structures & fences, or to try to get the butt toward the yard exit, etc. So we have to "muscle" it over by whatever means is at our disposal -- man power, direct pulling with a truck, or a winch and redirect block, etc.

We also have the "luxury" of changing out saws for each part of the process, as a ready ground crew is standing by to change out the saw for the climber/feller. They pass up the climbing saw (Stihl 200 or 201T with 16" bar) for the in-tree work, then on the ground the feller will call for the appropriate saw (346 with 20" bar, 372 with 24" bar or 395 with 36" bar). Then after felling the tree, the saw can again be changed out for an appropriate limbing saw (372 if there are major leaders still on the main trunk, or the 346 for general work).

Personally, I find the 346 ideal for my liking, as I like the bar length and weight & feel of it. It's power & bar are usually sufficient for 75% of the work I need it for. When we get our 2nd 372 back out of the shop, I may put a 20" bar on it instead of a 24" -- then we would have quite a good set of incremental steps in bar length and available power. So I may do some more bore cutting practice with both the 346 and the shorter 372 -- especially if we get this upcoming land clearing job with about 100 trees to remove on some open land.

 

[forestkeepers]

This video by Stihl is a lot more succinct than the Husqvarna training video, also featuring a bore cut:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bIBeL-3RB1U?rel=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[treebilly]

Better video but still not required for that tree. I get the logging thing of fiber pull. Bucking billy ray said it right though. For arbs it’s very rare to need it. Along with a V-cut for crane work

 

[Marc-Antoine]

His wedge's placement is less than ideal, ridicilous leverage. It works only for an easy tree like this one (or just on one side as a prop for a heavy side leaner). Put a backlean on it and he will be stuck here for the day hammering the poor wedges, possibly loosing the tree with a busted hinge.
I saw an other vid from him, a teaching class of some sort or a demo. Same wedge's placement but for a backleaner. That didn't went as easily as he planned of course and he kept banging on the wedges again and again. He managed to straighten up and fell the tree, but the (new) wedges were beaten to death.

 

[kevin bingham]

where would you have put them?

 

[Marc-Antoine]

About five o'clock (or seven) after making a little room on the side of the back strap.
Here he put them just against the hinge for one and just 1" away from it for the second. He had to pound them at least 4 time harder to get the same result.
It's like tying a pull rope at hand reach instead of hight in the crown. But you know that.
Use all the leverage you can get, that lessens the strain in the critical points and eases the things.
And maybe saves the day.

 

[stig]

I don't get that extremely open face cut.
Takes forever to make and doesn't work any better than a normal one.

Also, he has absolutely no stump shot.
Hope that tree doesn't hit another on the way down, or it'll come backwards off the stump.

 

[cory]

the (new) wedges were beaten to death.

Sign of a noob

 

[cory]

I don't get that extremely open face cut.
Takes forever to make and doesn't work any better than a normal one.

+1

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've never understood the "it stays on the stump longer" or whatever the thinking was. Murphy sure liked using it. I've never seen a single person use it IRL.

 

[SkwerI]

Sometimes I use a Humbolt in order to let the spar slide off the stump quicker and get the butt end on the ground sooner so it doesn't make as big of an impact. Some situations you can really minimize turf damage that way.