One I think I'm gonna walk away from

[Burnham]

Looks like a historic tree. Why is it going away? Signs of decay?

What will happen instead of you doing it?

Will it stay or be contracted out?

How and why is the hinge compromised?

Whizzy won't work on a compromised hinge.

How is that compromized BTW? Doesn't look rotten in the picture.
Unless there is a tree of similar or bigger size near enough to use for a rigging point, I think Brett's idea is probably the cheapest solution.

Move the barn.

Whenever I remove hazard trees for the forest service here, it is always about finding the cheapest ( safe) way, since they have no money.

I surmise that the same goes in Oregon.

So it comes down to simple math.

What is cheapest: rigging it out, getting a D9 with a winch on the scene or moving the barn.

No way I'd fall that one without a motorized HEAVY duty winch on the scene, if you can't get that, walk away from it.

This tree and historic barn are in what is now an equestrian oriented campground, back in the early days of the USFS it was part of a backcountry FS work center. Stig, it's just across that big meadow/seasonal lake where we visited the old District Ranger's house.

As a normal part of hazard reduction efforts in public campgrounds, we have a specialist in hazard tree identification and evaluation look through there. This gal is both well qualified and experienced, a forest pathologist by training. She will have both observed fruiting bodies and excavated around root crowns, and increment bored the bole.

As I hear it, phellinus (didn't hear which, probably weirii or pini) is the culprit, not uncommon in these oldgrowth stands. So it'll have a sound rind of less than 1 inch per 12 inches DBH...or likely some more, since the heavy lean adds to the risk evaluation. This tree is over 50 inches DBH. The presence of the historic structure and close proximity to heavily trafficed use areas ups the ante, too.

In any event, I wouldn't be likely to see much more than 6-8 inches of sound, green wood at the hinge ends...fine for some felling situations, but not enough to give me warm fuzzy feelings about keeping this one on the stump...especially with the consequences of failure on the high end.

 

[wiley_p]

If yoususpect heart rot Burnham, it will be pini. wieri is Laminated root rot. With that lean and species, I would think the former is correct.

 

[pete mctree]

I'd be wary of that one too Burnham. Swinging a tree through such an arc against the lean, with that amount of decay & no mechanical assistance would be marginal.

You seemed to have nailed the solution though- get the gear needed or get someone who has it to complete the job.

 

[Burnham]

From the pics that looks pretty tight. If you favor to far from the cabin I'm guessing those crowns mixing up could bring down some debris that might crush the cabin anyways? Tough to tell from pics. Generally if you need to pull hard, you need something heavy doing the pulling. And that's a big tree, iron to pull on that is expensive if it isn't readily available on site. If you had something sufficient could you pull it basically 180 from it's lean? To the right of the fir?

That's really the best place to shoot for...that is, to the right of the fir. That's about 90 degrees from the lean. 180 degres from lean would be directly away from the building...with enough power and high enough rigging of stout enough character, it could be done...I think. I've never tried to move that big a tree in that manner. If the hinge and surrounding area gave up the ghost too early in the pull, you'd have a nasty situation on your hands. Can you say "tiger by the tail"?

Some have asked what will happen to the tree if I decline to fall it. In that case, the recreation program manager will have to decide how to deal with it. That will likely mean requests for bid from arborist services, and analysis of how those prices might be fit into a program budget that now is even more severly restricted than usual. Given that the tree has been identified as a hazard, the choice to ignore it would be rather unlikely to be taken...but in the past the courts have given agencies like mine a by on liability if a plan is in place and the agency is unable to emplement that plan due to financial constraints beyond the agency's ability to control. That course of action might be chosen.

Another possibility might be to hire the needed iron to allow me to do the job properly, but I suspect that once I described the risks of doing the job and the remaining possibility that it might still turn out badly, the managers will elect to go with an outside source that carries sufficient liabilty coverage. If I do it, it's under the federal gov't "self-insured" basis, which means fixing an undesireable outcome has to be funded from slim project dollars.

 

[Peter]

A fully insured and equipped contractor sounds like the way forward then.

That particular fell would get the heart-rate up for sure.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I guess that Willie never cut that one he was contemplating.

 

[sotc]

Nope, and it was only 30 or so inches diameter.
Be am interesting project no doubt

 

[Gord]

If you could guy a cable back just off of 180 degrees to the lean to something secure a winch wouldn't be necessary.

It's a good Doug fir, it'll swing! I've got 50 bucks says it will...

I'd love to cut that up with a big cable on it, adrenaline.

 

[thattreeguy]

and if you be the gord that my falling buddy gary knows up in bc, youd prolly pull it off

i love these situations, makes your arse pucker, especially when its your ins deductible.
d8......big winch, if old ray chisum was closer the prentice would give ya some pull

 

[Al Smith]

Oh my though if that big old tree ever got away from you it would smash that barn so flat you couldn't salvage enough lumber out it to make a dog house . Then again there's probabley enough lumber in the tree to make another barn . The punishment for smashing the barn would be chainsaw milling the tree on site which would take a month of Sundays .

 

[SouthSoundTree]

sulphurascens was weirii
Now it's sulphurascens , not weirii
Been a long time gone, weirii
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every "fun-guy" with weirii
Lives with sulphurascens , not weirii
So if you've a date with weirii
He'll be waiting as sulphurascens

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way



New and old names aside I wouldn't want to try to swing it or pull it.
Laminated Root Disease (sulphurascens) creeping into the roots and butt would be bad at the hinge and on the pull.
Red Ring Rot (pini) would be bad a long way up the bole. Wouldn't want to pull hard with hundreds of tons likely to snap into pieces overhead.

Move the barn or crane it gently or let history repeat itself (tree falls in the woods). The tree would outlive the barn, except I imagine there has been human reconstruction on the barn.

This is a conflict that I run into at work, historic trees versus historic building or non-historic buildings/ campsites/ infrastructure. Tough calls to be made, especially with injury lawyers chomping at the bit everywhere.

 

[Al Smith]

Maybe 25 years ago I had one of my D4 Cats tied off to a big soft maple that was growing over a little barn about like that one .Fat old tree about a 4 footer .My buddy did the cutting .Once the tree commited I had that old dozer balls to the wall and that freakin tree fell as fast sideways as I was pulling into the lay .It missed the old barn but don't you know about 3 years later the guy took the danged thing down anyways .

 

[Burnham]

If you could guy a cable back just off of 180 degrees to the lean to something secure a winch wouldn't be necessary.

It's a good Doug fir, it'll swing! I've got 50 bucks says it will...

I'd love to cut that up with a big cable on it, adrenaline.

I wish I could agree with you, Gord . Unfortunately it's neither a "good" DF (heart rot), nor is there clearance for a restraint cable to swing as the tree falls. I'd take that $50 bet in a heartbeat, and if you stood at that tree beside me, I'd further bet another $50 that you'd not make the first bet .

 

[stig]

Which illustrates the problem about trying to assess a falling scenario by looking at pictures.

 

[Gord]

Ah I'm just having fun Burnham I'm sure it's as you say. Maybe a cable secured behind and in front of the lay with a block in the tree so it runs guyed?

 

[Tucker943]

Listen to your gut. Its the biggest, meanest, sharpest, and most reliable tool in a tree mans gear bag.

 

[flushcut]

Walking away may be in your best interests B.

 

[Old Monkey]

Listen to your gut. Its the biggest, meanest, sharpest, and most reliable tool in a tree mans gear bag.

Mine tells me which restaurants to go to and which donuts are tastiest.

 

[Cobleskill]

Mmmmm, donuts.

 

[Burnham]

Ah I'm just having fun Burnham I'm sure it's as you say. Maybe a cable secured behind and in front of the lay with a block in the tree so it runs guyed?

That's an interesting idea, Gord. If the tree wasn't such a massive one, I might even give it a try. But I fear my ability to judge how much load might come to bear on the rigging is lacking. It would certaily need to be stout as hell.

 

[Gord]

There's got to be an old tower sitting someplace that's got more than enough rigging for it.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

moving the barn could be a real possibility. It isn't so big.
Or take it apart if there isn't enough room to slide it away.
I saw that many times in the American TV series "extreme removals men" (not sure if it's the original tittle). They can move incredible things like house, boat, brick church and so on. Not a big deal with that barn.

An other solution, more on the logger's side, but without worrying with the access roads:
call this giant Russian chopper used for heli-logging.
Heavy hourly rate but the payload is over 12.000 pounds. It could take some big chunks out of the tree.

 

[sotc]

Ericson skycrane can take 25000

 

[Marc-Antoine]

I would love to see this beast at work in real.

 

[sotc]

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