Not sure about this tree

[woodworkingboy]

A neighbor is going to give me $120 to flop this Oak for him, it has dropped a few limbs and he is tired of the leaves in his rice field. I can use the dough, and just need to cut it up into lengths that two people can carry out, he and his buddy. It is a species of Oak that is pretty useless for anything but firewood, or else I'd be looking at the bottom section for woodwork.

The species is hard and heavy, but the wood doesn't make good hinge wood, somewhat brittle. The latest tree falling fatality in our area was when someone was flopping one of these, a barberchair incident was described to me. Definitely that tendency in cases.

I have looked at the tree a number of times to settle into a way to cut it, but am having a hard time getting a good sense about it. I figure to cut each lead separately slightly above the union, and the lower section last. Might want to put a chain ratchet across below the cut to tie the leads , it occurs, help eliminate surprises. The one lead basically has it's limbs going off in the same direction towards a good lay, with favorable lean and a good deal of weight (on the right), I figure to do a bore cut and trip it from the back, should be ok with caution. I can just reach above the unions to cut. The other lead is more tricky, the trunk leans about 5-10 degrees towards the lay (opposite side of the first pic), with two limbs also going that way, but it has another smaller limb about 120 degrees opposed to the lay, and also a rather large one, the biggest, 180 degrees to the lay. I think the opposing limbs just about cancel each other out, but not exactly sure, and there is the favorable lean in the trunk, as mentioned. The situation kind of has me confused. If it were to set back hard, there is nothing that will be damaged, but I am concerned about the safety factor. Will use wedges for sure. I don't have a lot of experience with large broad limbed trees, most of my treework has been in conifers. Climbing and taking off the rear weight is probably the best option, but I'd sure like to flop it as it stands. Nothing to attach to pull with, or I'd be doing that. Cheap pay, just like to do the falling and bucking and leave asap.
Can't be sure that I have covered all the considerations.

I don't know to what extent the photos can help you guys to see what I have described, hopefully somewhat, or even if it is fair to ask without a better way to show. The tree is a little over four feet across at the base, one of the larger ones that I have seen. Along the axis of the leads, it is considerably narrower. In the first photo, the lead in question is the one on the left.

Thanks for any thoughts, much appreciated.

 

[SkwerI]

I'd prefer to cut the two sides separately. The separation between the leads goes down almost to the ground. If you try to flop them together then they have a good chance of separating before they hit the ground. If you do want to flop them together then I'd tie them together as high as possible and make the felling cut near the ground.

I see no reason to leave a backstrap on the back cut and then tripping it, although I'm not a huge believer in the technique in most cases. You may end up cutting one side free and hanging up the other side with the backstrap. I wouldn't bore the hinge either since that may prematurely cut wood fibers holding the two sides together. Use a few wedges and keep equal tension on both sides with them. Actually you will need more tension on the half leaning away from the lay. As long as the two sides stay together then it's easy.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Brian, yes, cutting the leads separately, I also think is my best option. Your thought about not leaving a strap is interesting to read, i have really been wondering about that. The degree of lean can best be seen in the last photo, the lead on the left, plus the limb weight pulling in the same direction. You don't think that barberchair is a concern here? I have more confidence in a straight forward cut if it is doable.

 

[Tucker943]

I will totally co-sign what was just said. Could agree more. If you have a chain and binder, that would work to bind the 2 sides together.

 

[Tucker943]

I was directing that at Skwerl's post. jay, I just cant see using a bore cut for those 2 stems.

 

[NeTree]

I'm with Brian.

Cut the leads separate. If this wood hinges as crappy as you say, I'd be more worried about losing the hinge than a barberchair.

 

[Tucker943]

Maybe if a barber chair has you worried you could cinch a hank of bull line tight around the stem(s) just above your cut. It isnt 100% fool proof but I think it would do the trick to prevent an explosive barberchair. I think you'd be prefectly fine to just whack the bastid and grab the check.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

+4....
I would charge more though unless he was a real nice neighbor

 

[SkwerI]

Just don't diddle dally around on the back cut if there's a head lean. If you stop and start your back cut, whittling away a fraction of an inch at a time and stopping to watch and listen for cracking then you might eventually force it to fail and barberchair. But if you start your back cut and keep cutting until it tips then you will be fine.

 

[sotc]

I am seeing what Brian is seeing. Shoot a throw line, tie a running bowline, shoot another throw line through the other lead so you can pull the tail of the rope through it and down to you, then tie it off on one of the trunks. Put your face cut in the dirt like Stig () and cut the back up

 

[sotc]

Oh, and if you do cut below the union, the chance of barber chair is nearly non existant i'd say

 

[NeTree]

Fer Chrissakes, cut the fookin' thing already.

 

[Tucker943]

Where's Butch when you need him? He doesnt over complicate things. Butch, do you read me?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

 

[woodworkingboy]

Cut the thing already, hell still in my pjs. :roll:

Ah, sorry, a little confused, it seems like Willie is saying to cut the base, everybody else, the leads separately, as my original plan. C'mon you guys, this is a pretty big sucker.

Cutting below the union, no barberchair concern really, I was thinking more about separation, and one lead the direction of fall is a little questionable, how it is going to pull the thing? Probably should just cut it, as advised.

 

[NeTree]

Just hackin' on ya Jay.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I know.

 

[sotc]

 

[pigwot]

I'd be inclined to get lines up in it and out to a point where you can give 'gentle' directional pull to overcome the questionable
direction of fall with the one leader. Then drop the whole shebang at once like Willie says with a rope joining them together and cutting low to the ground (still use a pull rope).
Of course you are there and all this arm-chair quarterbacking hasn't assessed for voids or other complicating factors...
What species oak is it?

 

[NeTree]

Is it down yet?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

After pics soon we hope

 

[woodworkingboy]

Not quite, Erik, but at least moving in that direction.

Gee, Willie's wedges look like they never have been used, what's up about that?

I'd sure like to fall it in one deal, but there are differing opinions here. Interesting to see how that would go, and certainly save some time. Hadn't really thought about a pull rope, considering the weight involved, guess it couldn't hurt. Mine is just about long enough that the neighbor could get out of the way. Think I should go look at it again, it's only two minutes away.

"After pics", thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Seems faster to bore and backstrap release, one saw and... well nothing else for the felling. Not a lot to worry about in the back of your head about that fatality. No extra gear to deal with. No ropes to set. No worry about felling whole with a separation issue. --

One, two, three, four-- one lead down.
One, two, three, four--second lead down.
Dump the stump. Buck it. Collect the dough.

 

[SkwerI]

I may have misread, do both sides favor the lay? I thought the heavy side leaned away from the lay. That would be the only reason in my mind for taking it in one cut.

 

[woodworkingboy]

To clarify, both leads have acceptable lean, one also has almost all it's limbs going toward the lean, the one on the left when facing this photo, such that I was thinking barberchair was a concern when flopping it separately. The other lead has limbs going with and opposite the lean, probably greater weight against, but not by much. Basically, I would say that the overall lean and limb weight would be pulling the tree in the right direction if cut all at once, but there is the concern of separation when it first starts to fall, and what the lead with opposite weight to the lean would do then.

What about the idea of chaining it just above the union, and putting some rope or cable also higher up to hold the leads together, then cut at the base?