Need my first "big saw" advice on ms46x's?

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  • #126
@Bermy, you can see decay at the base of the tree but mainly because the root system is so exposed it’s reaching the foundation of his house.

@skwerl, I’m getting the premade loops and I think he had a skip chain, when I go to get it I’ll double check and go with that if he does.

@BeerGeek, he is a good friend of mine and he has a wood furnace/heater in his garage that he is going to put it in his house. So all he wants is for me to put the tree on the ground, he is gonna buy his own chainsaw and cut it down for firewood and store it.
 
I'm not a fan of skip chain. Cuts rough, and I'm skeptical that it saves any sharpening. Half as many teeth means twice as much cutting to get n" into the wood. IOW, it dulls twice as fast.
 
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  • #129
Yeah lxs I heard the same thing about how quickly it dulls but I guess if a skip tooth can still get you through a whole day and you sharpen your saw before every day then I guess it would save some time. A part of our morning muster is cleaning and prepping every saw. For now I’ll get whatever they have in stock and experiment in the future. The 20in saw will live on it the most
 
To answer, in euro area, I've vever seen a saw advertised with a full wrap handle. Heated handle, yes, but not the cat's meow of the west coast loggers :D
Same with the skip chains, they just don't appear in the usual lists of many sellers. Maybe they can be ordered, no idea.
It can be that I didn't really looked at it though.
In my jobs, alaping the stumps is very common, either because the customer doesn't want to pay a stump grinding, or if it does, I alap it for myself to save on the grinding time (small machine here). I often cut with a high stump of roughtly 20" for conveniency purpose if I fell the tree and most commonly sort out the firewood logs, but next step is alaping it. Soooo, the full wrap handle wouldn't work for me. In the tree, I'd wish to drag around a more stream-lined saw, not a even wider one. Actually, I did saw some situations where it would be really handy to have a full wrap handle, bust honestly it's rare when I was annoyed to not have it.
 
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  • #131
Marc: being an east coast guy its rare we get full wrap handles. The guy in the store said they had 2 of them not too long ago and that’s been it. At first I didn’t want to get the 500i cause of the cost difference and “spec’d” weight in Comparison to the 462. when I got there and that was the only thing they had besides a 362 and a 661, when i put the 500 in my hands and was able to extend it full reach and felt comfortable with it, that’s when I knew that was the saw for me. Plus it’s a bad ass :)
 
You should get a loop of each and see what you think. Any decent sawshop should stock both. Both will get the job done, so you won't be stuck with useless chain. Maybe you like both for different kinds of cutting. Hard to say til you try it.
 
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  • #133
I’ve heard of guys liking skip tooth for hard woods. Any truth in that?
 
I think it keeps the chain from bogging down with long bars in big wood. I haven't used skip in that scenario. In smaller hardwood, I find it chattery.
 
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  • #135
When we didn't have bigger saws we put a 25in skip tooth on our 261 to lessen friction so the saw could handle that much bar. It did alright but I liked the saw more when we put the 20in back on it with full comp
 
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  • #136
Our first job with our 661 36in full comp. we were taking down a big pecan and found old fence in it like a foot from the center of this 4ft duh tree. Took me like 20-30min to get that chain right
 
Hitting a nail or other metal with a long bar will make you appreciate the reduced number of teeth to sharpen (at least it makes ME appreciate it).
This is the main reason why I'll use it even on 20". Vibration could be linked to type of chain, bar, power head, ect. If not for quicker sharpening, I'll still use full skip on 28" and larger for better wood chip clearance.

Plus, full skip is lighter too, for those who care about every ounce, and ounces hanging on the tip can matter when the bars get long.
 
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  • #138
So another new guy question: tips on bar oil adjustment on newer chainsaws. When to know if my chain isn't oiled enough and how to check it. Most of our saws have kept the stock bar and we have never adjusted them so its something I haven't grasped yet.
 
Stihl saws? All the way up! Other saws? I like the bar itself to look a little wet, and have a good sheen of oil on the chain. Textbook is to rev the saw over a piece of wood or something, and it should leave oil splatter from being thrown off the nose.
 
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  • #140
yeah I saw that whole "oil splatter" thing in a book but it was generalized across all saws. Didn't know if that applied to new stihl "emmatic lubrication stuff"
 
Ematic means "doesn't use much oil". It has lower flow, and bar/chain design is supposed to make up for it. The bar has a smaller angled hole that looks like a venturi, and the chain has grooves that lead oil up to the links. Does it work? :shrugs: You'd have to test bar wear. I'm assuming Stihl did, but I'm unaware of publicly available data. I'd like to see more oil.
 
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  • #142
That’s right about what the guy at the shop told me about ematic stuff but I can agree with you. Whenever running my bosses bigger saws I’ll look at the chain and it almost looks dry while the chain on my echo always has a pretty shine to it. I don’t mess with the oiler cause it’s not my saw to do that with but now I can experiment with my own and share with him what I have learned
 
Read the manual when you get your 500. My 661 had a tension pin on the oiler you could hammer in to get turbo mode. Not really turbo of course, but I'll take what I can get. Dunno if the 500 has the same thing. It's a one time operation.
 
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  • #144
With the oiler all the way up does the bar oil run out before your gas does or still about the same time?
 
It's probably 1.5-2:1 fuel to oil. I top up the oil every time I add gas, but there's still a good bit left in there, and my oiler is on max.
 
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  • #146
Gotcha. That’s comforting. We always do the same thing: top off both every time gas runs out. I just didn’t want to turn oil all the way up and then run dry before gas runs out. So that’s awesome
 
I turn my oilers all the way up no matter what size bar I have on.
For the 500i I’d run skip over 28” since you’re in hardwood. If you’re going to run the 20” on it a lot I’d switch to an 8 tooth sprocket. Faster chain speed but will let the saw work a bit. With the factory 7 tooth it will just run top rpm’s all the time. Almost like free revving or as I call it “playing rockstar”.
 
If the chain isn't getting enough oil the chain and cutters will look like dry dirt is baked on, or like how a dremel grinding stone or sander gets burned on wood plugging the surface. Sufficiently oiled chains generally look clean. I like to set my oil pump so it runs out at the same time as the gas. I might even not top off the gas tank all the way, so oil doesn't run out first, and to avoid spilling gas all over the saw. I look at the top of the chain where the links connect to see if it is oiling well. After making a cut and letting it spool down after the cut, or with a very short rev, I should see the spots above the rivets look moist. Or, I'll pull the chain out of the bar enough to see how glossy/wet the drive links look if it is a stingy oiler.

Lately, I've been adjusting the oil output based on how dirty the saw gets, if I feel like it. Stihl saws seem to stay so clean looking for a reason: because they don't oil much. While Echos easily get caked in oily fine sawdust.

I remember tapping in the pin on a 661 that lets you turn the oiler screw to max, and it wasn't long before that saw was covered in oily dust and leaving puddles of oil.

I have recently wondered how much wear can be reduced by more oil. I used to think the main cause of bar wear was metal on metal contact with the chain. Just enough oil should help the bar last a very long time. But, how often do you pull the saw out of a cut with the chain stopped to find it packed full of saw dust? Those little wood chips get caught by the drive links and drug through the rails. They are what sucks the oil off the chain so fast, and in my opinion, they wipe off some metal in the process. Just think how hard it is to free up a chain seized by sawdust jammed in the rails. My fast cutting firewood saws have it bad because the chips are so thick, they can dry out a 20" bar on a heavily oiling 90cc such that I have to keep the chain spinning between cuts to keep it from seizing. Actually, the 90cc saws tend to have enough torque for it to not be much of a problem, but I was testing an Echo 590 I ported and had a fast chain on, and after every cut through a 30" Ash log with a 20" bar, the chain would seize and take much effort to get freed and lubed enough to start another cut, but it went through a tank of oil with a tank of gas. That's when I started to realize the effect of sawdust inside the bar groove since my only variable was the size of the chips.
 
Sounds like you got better results from the 661 than I did. With my oiler all the way up, the 25" bar is /ok/. Not great, but it doesn't leave me wondering how bad I'm messing things up. The 36" bar is way too dry imo.
 
It's because the tech's at Stihl these days have their heads up their azzes!

Both the 084 and 090's had manual oilers allowing the operator to pump enough oil for a 6 foot Cannon bar!

How plenty of bar oil for long bars became outdated's a mystery they need to solve, again.....

Jomo
 
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