Murphy's Step Cut

[bonner1040]

When I started at the company I was assigned to a crew as you would expect. The foreman Duane is a lifetime company guy and was a national safety/training guy for over 10 years. He has been teaching the step cut, or open faced snap cut as he calls it, for three decades. He is a huge advocate of it and as such we use it a lot.

Now I know Murphy has long been a proponent of his 'step cut', and I am not intending to split hairs over who thought up what, lets say everyone arrived at it independently. What I would like to know, is anyone else out there doing stuff like this? Who likes it, hates it, etc?

We use it primarily to set the hinge with a plunge and get the sawyer out of the drop zone for the pull. Unless there is a reason NOT to, on our crew we almost always use this method.

Here is a close up of our use today. Its a cucumber tree and was quite large (for our area) so I left a big hinge and used a tall snap (step). I also didnt go help pull it over. The tree was brushed out, there werent any hangers and we cleared the falling path with a polesaw from the top of the tree.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/10lnLaQlbfQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MasterBlaster]

K.I.S.S.

 

[Burnham]

I'm with Butch, Nick. I think both Murph and your fine man Duane are nuts.

But I'm from the PNW logging background...so everyone knows we're nuts, too .


To answer more completely, I ask why the step? What is the purpose? I say it's not needed, and it sets up great potential for uneven hinge pull.

 

[flushcut]

Wow! That's a hell of a lot of pull to get that thing over.

 

[Burnham]

Yup, to no advantage that I can figure.

 

[flushcut]

Right.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Maybe a gap face would aid in the direction department if you felt that method was essential? Seems like basically a method for a heavy head leaner, with a larger step, but it's not a head leaner. With a straight grained tree, the risks of a poor hinge seem much reduced. It's going to break like in the vid.

 

[murphy4trees]

I'm with Butch, Nick. I think both Murph and your fine man Duane are nuts.

But I'm from the PNW logging background...so everyone knows we're nuts, too .


To answer more completely, I ask why the step? What is the purpose? I say it's not needed, and it sets up great potential for uneven hinge pull.

I had the same reaction to those pics of you using 6" of stump shot on that doug fir with no escape route INITIALLY.. then after I thought about it for a couple days I realized I know almost nothing about falling big doug firs. Its outside of my experience. A lot of the differences of opinion on these boards are about the differences in topography, tree species and size, client expectation, availability of resources, how we get paid (by the client or for the logs or both) etc.. AND a lot of the differences in opinion are just differences in skill, understanding and experience... Its often hard to tell the difference. There is a strong tendency to criticize and condemn those things that are outside of our experience. Wouldn't it be nice if differences invited curiosity instead of criticism.

I have worked on developing the latter. So though my initial reaction was "this guy is a maniac using 6" of stump shot, you try that on eastern hardwoods, you;re gonna have trouble". I tempered that opinion with what is really just common sense, thinking.. NO this guy obviously knows what he is doing, he must have had his reasons. WHAT WERE THEY? When I asked myself that question, it started the wheels turning in another direction, and I learned a few things.. I AM glad I did...

 

[woodworkingboy]

Aren't there better ways to do the same thing, tailor the back cut so that you can get out of there and not have a concern about possibly compromising the hinge? It would seem to possibly require some finer cutting to get the results hoped for.

 

[Burnham]

I asked why, but I get preached at. You're a case, Murph.

Back to my stool at the end of the bar, a safer place for me when M4T speaks.

 

[bonner1040]

Burnham,

His thinking is that the step holds it all together, while you vacate the area. You are right, it was a LOT of pull for a simple tree, but I left a big step and a big hinge on purpose. I am not preaching it, quite the contrary actually, a lot of times I find it unnecessary but there have been times where I appreciate the value of it.

 

[treesmith]

I use this from time to time, Nick, though it's not an everyday thing. I use this method occasionally when I need to throw a top, but don't want to be in the tree when it goes over. I also use it when working alone. Cut/set hinge, then use truck/Gehl/winch to pull tree over.

 

[murphy4trees]

I asked why, but I get preached at. You're a case, Murph.

Back to my stool at the end of the bar, a safer place for me when M4T speaks.

You called me "nuts" before you asked "why".. I was responding to that, and I didn't mean to preach.. Thought ot wold be nice to let some others chime in as to the why before answering. I AM cusious too, to see how much acceptance the technique has. If that "siberian elm" removal thread is still available, there was a lot of discussion about the "why" there.. There are a number of reasons to use it.. I gotta go now, and will explain it all ONCE AGAIN...

 

[MasterBlaster]

Probably not necessary.

 

[Altissimus]

 

[canadiantreeman]

Haha. This ol thang again. Butch nailed it, methinks.

But, not like its a bad thing to have another trick in the bag. I've never once used the cut, ftr.

 

[mistahbenn]

Yeh chill yer beans Murph....

 

[mistahbenn]

I will only use a bore/release cut on heavy leaners like the rest of us.

 

[Al Smith]

That so called step gizmo is just a semi controlled barber chair .

 

[Altissimus]

I do not see any advantage... matter of fact it increased the effot neeed to pull it... unless I missed something...

 

[cory]

Duane's been doing it there since dirt was invented so he has his valid reasons I'm sure. But I've never used that cut fwiw and I would hate to stress my ropes unnecessarily like that, like, maybe it was a safe thing to do with that tree but because you had to murder (to some degree) your rope to do it, maybe that rope is gonna unexpectedly fail later on making a hazard that could have been avoidable

 

[woodworkingboy]

Scott's use for the method seemed like a wise one to me, pulling a top after climbing down. On the ground, having a lesser step I believe is going to reduce the amount of pull required, and also reduce the chance of unfavorable runout that could adversely affect the hinge. If the point is being able to leave before the pull, it doesn't seem that much step is required, varied by the lean factor, species, and condition of the wood. If it works, why not?

 

[cory]

I would think that if you can train people to do a good plunge cut in those situations (avoiding kickback, good accuracy re hinge), and you can teach them the appropiate size step to leave in each given situation, then you could train them to do more "normal" falling techniques and get the job done more quickly and simply.

 

[squisher]

Duane's been doing it there since dirt was invented so he has his valid reasons I'm sure. But I've never used that cut fwiw and I would hate to stress my ropes unnecessarily like that, like, maybe it was a safe thing to do with that tree but because you had to murder (to some degree) your rope to do it, maybe that rope is gonna unexpectedly fail later on making a hazard that could have been avoidable

Exactly. That looked like it pulled real hard. You could never use that cut on the conifers around here unless it was a heavy head leaner and then you obviously wouldn't be pulling it at all. But I still cut down a lot of hardwoods and always just cut it up. Besides. Where do the wedges go if its a hard pull? I always back up the rope or ropes on a real pull tree with wedges. What I'm getting at is if its big enough to be worried about pulling. I'm using wedges. And if its not big enough to worry about backing up with wedges I wouldn't bother with a fancy cut like that just to make it harder to pull over.

 

[Tucker943]

I have no time for violently jerking trees to get them to go over. Smooth and steady on my jobs.