Kong Futura chest ascender

[PCTREE]

What gives is the rope. In your scenario the 100' of rope had enough energy absorption where you didn't feel the hit . If you were say right up against your TIP and dropped 5' it would be a very different deal. More rope= more stretch = good. Also the unicender is very good with drop tests, doesn't compromise the rope.

Im sure if your Unicender broke and dropped you Morgan wouldn't tell you to go to hell. Don't buy Kong.

 

[Altissimus]

.... even if the answer was "no" about the grips failing ... a stand up company would have at least anwered me ...

 

[kevin bingham]

I think its clear that Kong does not care whether it is considered life support gear. I don't care either as I will not be hanging my life on their gear. If they don't believe it should be trusted I wont either. That doesn't mean they don't have gear for non life support uses. Two categories here... They are squarely out of the life support gear department, They are in the Singing Tree Rope Tools category of non life support equipment, they should really should probably label the gear as such.
I dont know about the details of the severed rope. I read the article by Brian Kane and then Drew Bristow did some drop tests. Thats all I know, these reports had no impact on my climbing style. I too used to Jug, rock climbing. Terribly inefficient the way I was taught. I hear that that tree climbers have antiquated systems but I have never seen rope-smiths in the other disciplines understand rope the way arborists do. Most of the systems I have seen employed are very one dimensional. None of these disciplines require the freedom of movement that arborists depend on.

My biggest concern with ascender ascent is the self rescue/ ariel rescue problems that tying into one way ascenders presents. I think a far likelier scenario than dynamic falls or general ascender failure is the possibility of running into bees or getting hit by an unseen widow maker during ascent. Performing a changeover while tied into multiple positions on the rope can be quite dangerous. Even if you already have a ready installed descent mechanism such as a wrench or a unicender. If someone else needs to rescue you, the process is dramatically made more difficult if the victim is weighted into an ascender. This one way ascender scenario makes having a lower-ready trunk tie system during ascent pretty much obligatory in my opinion.

I was once demoing various SRT ascent systems at our local chapter. I was showing off the texas system using two ascenders. I ascended up and then on the changeover to descent, due to not much practice with this system, I got the figure eight jammed up in one of the ascenders. I had installed the eight between the two ascenders and had forgotten to remove the lower ascender before descending. I was doing things in the wrong order. I got myself stuck in front of a class I was supposed to be teaching. One of the things that amazed me was how much I had to fight off a panic attack. For a second I freaked out. A few deep breaths and I was able to work myself out of the jam without to much embarrasment. I learned how easily a situation like that could go wrong. This was in a very controlled environment with nearby help but what about in a real life scenario? Could I turn around and unclip everything on and off in the right order if I saw a swarm of bees coming at me or a sensed imminent tree failure etc.

Have you ever started climbing a tree and then started feeling like... "I dont like this tree... I dont like my tie in point.... wow that lighting bolt was close! Im getting out of here."

As for the unicender, Which is an ascender one way and then if you take a wrap onitself it becomes a descender. if you are comfortable climbing the rest of the tree on just a Unicender, why would you not be okay with just the unicender as your primary attachment during ascent?

Since I destroyed my futura ascender, I have gone back to using my footlock prussic as my upper ascender. I own a CMI which is way to bulky and then I own a Petzl ascent tree which is also way to bulky.

This is a breakdown of my whats in my go to work climbing bag currently:


One biner $15
one prussic $15
one ISC micropulley $20
one rope wrench and tether $125
One continuous loop footlock prussic for my left foot loop $15 (this could be as little as $2 if you used non life support rope for a non life support cause)
petzl pantin for my right foot $70

Lanyard for lanyard as well as making my hitch a chest ascender (eye to eye; biner, snap; rope) +-$50

My saddle is a Matt Cornell modified Kuemerling rope saddle $175 (best saddle I have owned) As Gerald Beranek says clearly in his book, homemade rope saddles are the way to go if you want something to work for you.

other things in my climbing bag

Spurs for removals.

leather tube cambium saver for my srt line on thin barked trees
ring to ring cambium saver for when I don't want a base tie for my SRT line.
a few other carabiners for random things. (i usually have a biner extra on my harness at all times (two biners total with me in the tree.)

random slings and a couple extra prussic cords that stay in the bag unless needed

I have other jingly jangly stuff that is mostly just pretty to look at in other bags lying around the shop.

 

[rangerdanger]

Just FYI on toothed cams on "arborist ropes", most arbo ropes(excluding static lines) are not designed with toothed cams in mind, and therefore, when a force is applied to them, they can cut through an arbro rope like butter. Rock climbing ropes and static lines are designed with toothed ascenders in mind, and the jacket and core are constructed very differently, so that, in the event of a fall with a toothed ascender on the line, it doesn't shred through the rope completely, but rather strips the cover from the core, leaving the core intact to hold the climber after the fall. This is why its very unwise to use toothed ascenders with arborist rope(things like 16 strand mainly, I believe 24 strand lines have better results in this type of thing, but don't quote me on that)

 

[bonner1040]

My saddle is a Matt Cornell modified Kuemerling rope saddle $175 (best saddle I have owned) As Gerald Beranek says clearly in his book, homemade rope saddles are the way to go if you want something to work for you.

Is this what you climb on?
http://karlkuemmerling.com/store/product710.html

 

[kevin bingham]

Thats the one, but my friend matt cornell rigged it up with modern ropes and a bridge with rings. Very versatile.

 

[bonner1040]

Thats the one, but my friend matt cornell rigged it up with modern ropes and a bridge with rings. Very versatile.

You should start a thread and post some pictures.

 

[emr]

You have to post a pic. I wanna see it!

 

[tophopper]

 

[rangerdanger]

I'd be interested to see a pic.

 

[Jack]

+1 PIC

 

[kevin bingham]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S3khfQcq5s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is more or less what i roll with day to day, have used a few ascenders but this has been my favorite. My kong no longer functions

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Nice and smooth Kevin

 

[SydTreeguy]

I don't have a siding or vested interest in the whole kong debate, but I think it's good to get facts rather than go on hearsay. Having said that, I'll add some hearsay

A couple points that I think haven't been mentioned here that are worth perhaps noting. All of these I read from letters published by kong, or from posts by sherill or the guy who got hurt.

According to kong, their insurance company refused to pay the claim. Kong also claims that the guys own medical insurance company refused to cover his medical costs. I notice nobody is going after either of the insurance companies....

The rings in question may or may not have been kong's, though it seems for the most part that kong is accepting the rings to be theirs. They were found in a box marked kong. All the other rings supplied by kong were stamped, this box was unique in not having stampings. There is some question of how the rings got their, then also the question of why did sherill on sell them without markings and who is at fault with QA on inspection at each point along the way.

Kong's insurer denied the claim partly on the question of whether the rings were actually manufactured by kong, but mainly that 'inspection and suitability for purpose needs to be ascertained by the end user'. People are going on about how the reason why the payout wasn't made was because it was in a comp setting, which is not the case form letters I have read. That was a side point in one of kongs poorly worded letters.

Kong made several (escalating) offers to cover the cost out of their own pocket despite both their and the climbers insurance companies denying the claim. From memory the highest amount they offered was around the US$10k mark. From memory the claim by the guy who got hurt was for somewhere around $20k.

It seems a tough case. What if, say, the rope wrench had a bolt fitted to it that a supplier had sold to Bingham, and the bolt failed. Somebody got hurt, and binghams insurance company refuses to pay, saying that the bolt was faulty and the liability is the bolt companies. Then the bolt company says that bolt was not intended for that purpose and you need to do your own in house testing.... Does Kevin sell his house? Bad example perhaps because the rope wrench is not intended for primary life support. But we could think up another similar example with harnesses, or any other bit of gear that is made up of third party components. Do we need more comprehensive insurance, more comprehensive QA? Are we willing to pay the cost of that as end users, or do we buy cheap gear and drive the market down?

For the record I don't buy kong gear, I think it's rubbish. Most of my stuff is petzl and some DMM, CMI and SRT(australia).

Shaun